02-06-2005, 13:01
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#1
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Asset
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 41
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M21 questions
Last years "vacation" in a tax free zone has paid off! After the manditory trip to Disneyland, new curtains for mama, and this years training money, theres enough left for a new piece. Im going with an M21 (yes, yes, I know...gas gun vs. bolt gun), but I had some questions that maybe someone could help out with. Im probably going with the Springfield Armory/ McMillian/ Leupold combo, however, does anyone have any opinion on Armscorp double lugged recievers? Good or bad? Any opinion on ART II 3x9 vs Leupold Mark 4 10x40? Lastly, any advice on the mount? Picatinny rail seems the way to go anymore. Any opinion on the best to go with? Any advice would be most appriciated.
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Mac is offline
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02-06-2005, 13:26
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,825
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mac
Last years "vacation" in a tax free zone has paid off! After the manditory trip to Disneyland, new curtains for mama, and this years training money, theres enough left for a new piece. Im going with an M21 (yes, yes, I know...gas gun vs. bolt gun), but I had some questions that maybe someone could help out with. Im probably going with the Springfield Armory/ McMillian/ Leupold combo, however, does anyone have any opinion on Armscorp double lugged recievers? Good or bad? Any opinion on ART II 3x9 vs Leupold Mark 4 10x40? Lastly, any advice on the mount? Picatinny rail seems the way to go anymore. Any opinion on the best to go with? Any advice would be most appriciated.
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The M21 will require a lot more care, tuning and maintenance to shoot as well as the competition.
I had an Armscor and a Smith (IIRC) rifle, M1A parts are so high these days, I recommend buying the complete rifle rather than building up a receiver. If you go that route, Fulton Armory builds a good gun.
The Mac is a good stock, as for the optic, I would take the Leupold 3.5-10x M3 over the others you are looking at.
I have never found a rock solid M-1A mount, and I have tried most of them.
Good luck.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-06-2005, 13:51
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
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ARMS has a new low profile mount (#18 i think) that is supposed to be pretty good. I also recommend the Super Sniper scope as I have not been able to beat it's performance for anywhere near the price. SWFA is the only place to get them, they can be reached at www.riflescopes.com or by searching for SWFA on the web.
YMMV, HTH
Good times,
Blake
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Air.177 is offline
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02-06-2005, 13:53
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#4
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Asset
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 41
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TR,
Thanks for the thoughts. I definately agree on buying the whole rifle rather than building from the ground up (although Fulton did some really nice work on an M1 a friend of mine owns). Armscorp has an M21 model they offer, but Ive heard a couple of bad opinions on their receivers (in reference to their metallurgy).
The Leupold sounds like the way to go. Cant argue with their success. Same with the Mac stock.
Your experiences on the mount problems has been shared with me by a few others as well. I did hear a good report on Sadlak Ind. new mount, but its only one guys opinion and didnt want to make a decision off just his experience (especially with the cost of M1A parts these days).
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Mac is offline
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02-06-2005, 14:00
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#5
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Quiet Professional
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Air:
I have the ARMS mount on one of my M1As, it does not lock the optics securely.
I own the Super Sniper as well, and while it is an excellent value, I am not sure that it belongs on this rifle.
I like the Leupold 3.5-10x M3s for my 7.62 gas guns. With the cams allowing you to dial in the range, one turn only of elevation adjustment, and the variable power, it is an excellent complement to a good precision gas gun.
Just my .02.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-06-2005, 14:06
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#6
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,355
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I'm considering a build from LRB, which I learned about only recently. They make a forged receiver with an integral rail for mounting optics:
http://www.lrbarms.com/pages/1/index.htm
I intend to use the rifle for range work and hunting. Thoughts?
Edited: I found some more info.
__________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither Thou goest." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
"If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so." - JRRT
Last edited by jatx; 02-06-2005 at 14:14.
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jatx is offline
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02-06-2005, 14:11
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Air:
I have the ARMS mount on one of my M1As, it does not lock the optics securely.
I own the Super Sniper as well, and while it is an excellent value, I am not sure that it belongs on this rifle.
I like the Leupold 3.5-10x M3s for my 7.62 gas guns. With the cams allowing you to dial in the range, one turn only of elevation adjustment, and the variable power, it is an excellent complement to a good precision gas gun.
Just my .02.
TR
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I stand corrected, Thanks for the info TR
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Air.177 is offline
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02-06-2005, 14:12
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#8
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Quiet Professional
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jatx
TR,
I read somewhere else recently about a smaller, custom outfit that is producing forged receivers with an integral rail for optics. That sound familiar to you?
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'Fraid not.
I have seen the Troy, Sage, and new McMillan folding stocks, bit no railed receivers.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-06-2005, 14:33
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#9
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Asset
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 41
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The LRB idea sounds like an interesting concept, but I dont know if I have the funds to be the test pilot  . It would seem resonable that it would solve the problems the TR and others have experienced, but Id like to see what effects, if any, altering the receiver design would have on long term use. If there were damage, how would it be repaired? Its definately worth looking into further...
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Mac is offline
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02-06-2005, 14:46
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#10
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Quiet Professional
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Nasty looking plant, but I would take forged over cast (Springfield) any day.
That is an incredible dealer price for the receiver, with nothing special other than the two rail bases added.
I would expect that a competent smith could carefully weld on a mount and cut away the excess for far less than that.
Just my .02, YMMV.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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02-06-2005, 14:55
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,355
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
I would expect that a competent smith could carefully weld on a mount and cut away the excess for far less than that.
TR
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Hmm, now that is something I hadn't considered. It definitely makes me more interested in the Fultons.
__________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave whither Thou goest." - Ecclesiastes 9:10
"If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so." - JRRT
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jatx is offline
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02-06-2005, 15:44
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#12
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Quiet Professional
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Location: Central TX
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If you are not hung up on the roll your own mentality, I know that Texas Brigade armory does good work, although a little pricey. Definately worth looking into.
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Air.177 is offline
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02-06-2005, 16:20
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#13
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Asset
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 41
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Air,
True. That is a little higher than Fulton or SA, but I guess you get what you pay for. I haven't heard much of their M1A's, but I have heard nothing but good on their bolt guns. Choices, choices, choices.... 
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Mac is offline
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02-06-2005, 16:30
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mac
Air,
True. That is a little higher than Fulton or SA, but I guess you get what you pay for. I haven't heard much of their M1A's, but I have heard nothing but good on their bolt guns. Choices, choices, choices.... |
A friend of mine has an m1a in their shop right now getting turned into a close facsimile of a USMC DMR. Probably will be a little while till it comes out of the shop as they are only a 2 man operation with tons of irons in the fire right now, but all of their stuff that I have seen has been quite impressive. For me, these guys have the added advantage of being right next door to the range that I use all the time, so I can just mozy on over and take a look at things when I am in the area.
good times,
blake
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Air.177 is offline
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02-06-2005, 21:52
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#15
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Asset
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 41
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Air,
Im envious. Nothing like being able to see it before you invest. Thanks for the help, gentlemen.
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Mac is offline
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