Escalations and C&C

QRQ 30 · 01-08-2005, 09:24

Some time ago I expressed that I thought that much of the terrorism I saw appeared to be lawlessness and more effective law enforcement was needed. Recently it has become apparent that the attacks are well orchestrated and coordinated by a central command and control element. We need to find this C&C and neutralize it.

I saw a film, made by the terrorists, of the composition od a vehicular bomb -- ingenious. It was nine artillary shells wired to detonate simultaneously and wired right in a mini van. The shells appeared to be of the 152 mm or larger variety. There is also a news clip showing a "car bomb" detonating a few days ago. The explosion was truly awsome.

Back to the Monday morning's quarterback's chair. Did we fail to sufficiently secure captured/over run stock piles in our rush to Baghdad?

37F5V · 01-08-2005, 10:36

I tell you what...... Even around a little bedouin town that we "took back" we found a shit-load of ordinance. Stuff for Anti-armor ambush's (Brand spanking new RPG's still in the packaging, etc..) staged all over the place behind dunes and in wadis. What was found was gathered up and destroyed. I have a feeling that we were shown just enough to satisfy the CDR on the ground until we exfilled the AO. That country is littered with the shit.

**The Reaper** · 01-08-2005, 10:46

I saw the same video of the car bomb.

What is really scary is that they killed seven guys yesterday in a Bradley.

Unless it is being misreported as an IED when it was actually an anti-tank mine, that is one BAD IED.

If riding in a Brad isn't safe, only thing left is an Abrams.

We need for the populace to start turning these guys in and tipping us off. If we cannot manage that, we are in serious trouble.

Intel is the key to this war.

TR

mffjm8509 · 01-08-2005, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Unless it is being misreported as an IED when it was actually an anti-tank mine, that is one BAD IED.

We need for the populace to start turning these guys in and tipping us off. If we cannot manage that, we are in serious trouble.

Intel is the key to this war.

TR

IEDs have evolved over the past year. We arent seeing many "improvised" explosives anymore. What we are running into is ordinance, prepped and command detonated. VBIEDs are more common place now, as they can carry more rounds (as the one in the video you refer to) and cause greater damage. Reports of VBIEDs are abundant, you'd think there were an army of people just driving around looking for targets, based on the frequency of reporting.

Intel is only half of the issue. Intel is bottom driven. Targeting is easy based on internally devleoped information. There are plenty of "good" local nationals that are willing to come and give us actionable information for the better of thier communities. Getting "big army" to commit to prosecuting these targets is another thing, or even worse is getting them to process them through the detention system.

It is an odd operational environment, and one we dont train guys to operate in at the school house. We are fighting an unconventional war, within a conventional commanders battlespace. That means, that we as USSF can NOT prosecute our own targets without the blessing of local TF and Brigade Commanders.

That is our daily challenge.

mp

**Jack Moroney (RIP)** · 01-08-2005, 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by mffjm8509

It is an odd operational environment, and one we dont train guys to operate in at the school house.

mp

Actually we were training the BN & Group Cdrs to just this during their pre-commanders course. I wrote the exercise and it opened up just the complications you describe. Unfortunately the organization for whom I worked evidently became too expensive for SWC and they dropped that part of the program. Other areas that have fallen on their butt over the years is the system within TRADOC called the DRAG (Doctrinal Review and AnalysisGroup) where all the commandants from each school were forced to sit in front of the TRADOC commander and have thier doctrinal publications dragged before each of the other branches for review and integration into the army doctrinal publications so that each one knew what the other brought to the battlefield. It is my understanding that this also has stopped. When I was doing this stuff as the SWC DOTD we were in a constant retraining mode for all the other branches and I spent more time on the road than I would like to remember-especially back and forth to Huachuca to get them to recognize our unique requirements and train their folks in the specific needs for SOF targeting and intel so that when we where working within their areas of interest they could at least support our requirements. From reading what you have written and from what I have gathered it seems like all this accomplished was to drain down the TDY account.

Jack Moroney

QRQ 30 · 01-08-2005, 12:42

President Nixon asked Fred Zabitowski MOH, how he did what he did day after day. Fred said that he was better trained, better equiped, better armed and better supported than the enemy. This was all true which led to a certain confidence. I personally knew and worked with Fred. He, however as most SF soldiers still had the utmost respect for the enemy. We never took him for the idiot jungle bunny others seemed to.

It seems that somewhere up the line there is a lack of respect for the terrorists. That lack of respect is deadfly, literally. As I said, right now I see a well organized and commanded network not individual, totally independent cells acting on their own. We are no longer dea;ing with thugs and criminals as before (if at all) but a well organized insurgency.

I must add that I now speak as a spectator and not a participant and could well be in error.

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 01-08-2005, 13:27

It seems that somewhere up the line there is a lack of respect for the terrorists. That lack of respect is deadfly, literally. As I said, right now I see a well organized and commanded network not individual, totally independent cells acting on their own. We are no longer dealing with thugs and criminals as before (if at all) but a well organized insurgency.

I must add that I now speak as a spectator and not a participant and could well be in error.[/QUOTE]

I'm not a participant either; however, I have to agree with your above statement on the state of the insurgency at this point. I don't see it getting much better either.

mffjm8509 · 01-08-2005, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by QRQ 30

As I said, right now I see a well organized and commanded network not individual, totally independent cells acting on their own. We are no longer dea;ing with thugs and criminals as before (if at all) but a well organized insurgency.

The pending elections have forced rival insurgent forces, both sunni and shia, to bond together in many areas to disrupt the elecitve process.

Your analysis very well may prove to be correct. Saddam Hussein spent his last couple of years in power funding and organizing a group that could be suited to organize such an effort. My a/o is smack dab in the middle of where this groups C2 structure was established.

There are still thugs and criminals as before, but this type is normally motivated by money. The easy money for them now is of foreign influence, and their operations for whatever reason are AIF, and thus targetable.

mp

**The Reaper** · 01-08-2005, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by mffjm8509

Intel is only half of the issue. Intel is bottom driven. Targeting is easy based on internally devleoped information. There are plenty of "good" local nationals that are willing to come and give us actionable information for the better of thier communities. Getting "big army" to commit to prosecuting these targets is another thing, or even worse is getting them to process them through the detention system.

It is an odd operational environment, and one we dont train guys to operate in at the school house. We are fighting an unconventional war, within a conventional commanders battlespace. That means, that we as USSF can NOT prosecute our own targets without the blessing of local TF and Brigade Commanders.

That is our daily challenge.

mp

I am shocked and dismayed to hear that we know who the terrorists are, but are prohibited from engaging them by conventional commanders.

That is so short-sighted as to be ridiculous. How many troops for the unit has to be sent home before the chain of command takes serious measures, even if it favors SF?

While we may not want a full blown Phoenix program, it would seem prudent to at least drag the terrorists and their supporters (underground/auxillary, not philosophical) into custody, if not pop them.

This news is something I had not heard, and does not bode well for us.

TR

Weazle23 · 01-08-2005, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mffjm8509

We are fighting an unconventional war, within a conventional commanders battlespace. That means, that we as USSF can NOT prosecute our own targets without the blessing of local TF and Brigade Commanders.

That is our daily challenge.

mp

I heard a couple mortor rounds leave the tube across the river then land inside the Green Zone while checking ID badges this evening. Man, I'm glad I'm making sure people have proper ID badges leaving the Green Zone instead of chasing after bad guys who target fixed locations daily! (note the sarcasim) I'm just an inexperienced conventional soldier and I get frustrated with being humstrung, I can't imagine having the training/ability of SF and still not able to take immediate action. 1st Cav will rotate out soon enough.

504PIR · 01-08-2005, 21:59

Just my .02 Granted I'm here as a dirty, civilian contractor. But even yahoo news was talking about a SF ran "Phoniex type program" (though they mentioned El Sal not VN). Its about time!

Fox news showed SF training the new Iraqi SF guys the other day. I have heard thru rumor control that they are pretty good.

We know there is a Command & control network based out of Syria (we even admitted it on CNN), the fight has to be taken to them.

I do not nesscarily believe the conventional cmdrs are to blame as much as Dept. of State. DoS lives in a fantasy world over here. I can sight numourous examples. Such as the elections get closer the "seige" mentality gets worse. NOW is when the Iraqis need to see gringos out doing there jobs! Security is why I was hired over here. Yet I sit here in the GZ doing squat. I'll be blunt I do not want to take unnesscary risk, but our clients need to show their face out there. If they don't the locals will be electing whoever can provide them with security. This culture is big on honor and not showing fear. Fortunatly basic rifle marksmanship is not a big thing with Arabs.

Since the CPA went out of business the sitituation has deterioted. But CPA screwed the pooch too last April. When the Blackwater contractors got killed, Bremmer flinched. Tried to talk to the bad guys, police themselves in Fallugha- general Diplomat wishy-washy crap. It should not have taken 7 months to let CF go in there and clean it out.

Well I have been up all night, and wearing out so I will conclude my rants from Baghdad.

mffjm8509 · 01-08-2005, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I am shocked and dismayed to hear that we know who the terrorists are, but are prohibited from engaging them by conventional commanders.

That is so short-sighted as to be ridiculous. How many troops for the unit has to be sent home before the chain of command takes serious measures, even if it favors SF?

TR

Heres one that will shock you. Just happened 2 days ago.

A specific individual over here has been targeted for some time, no specifics on the 5ws.

He arranged a meeting with the local BDE Commander, and has come out with Amnesty in return for making a "get out and vote" television commercial.

This guy is direclty responsible for the deaths of American soldiers as well as the assassination of local elected officials. We know this, have evidence, and because of taht evidence he was listed as a regional HVT.

The TF Commander and S-3 are livid, and nearly in tears over it as they have lost several guys over the past year to this insurgents activities....and have been actively persuing his capture/death...only to have the next higher commander give him amnesty.

mp

**The Reaper** · 01-09-2005, 08:38

Incredible. Thanks for sharing.

Any chance of him tripping an IED on the way home?

Picking up a bug/tracker?

Maybe posing it that he came in to rat out his buddies and provide the U.S. intel?

I guess the BDE CO is an insurgency expert.

TR

mffjm8509 · 01-09-2005, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Any chance of him tripping an IED on the way home?

Picking up a bug/tracker?

Maybe posing it that he came in to rat out his buddies and provide the U.S. intel?

I guess the BDE CO is an insurgency expert.

TR

All of that would defeat the BDE CDRs IO campaing. In his own words....."nobody else is doing what I'm doing, we'll have to see what happens."

and my own COs words "either he's a genius, or a complete idiot"

I'm leaning toward the later......

mp

**The Reaper** · 01-16-2005, 11:44

PM me his name, I may know him and can answer your question without having to wait for the end result.

TR