Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft

[Golf1echo]

Swiss Confederation

Some of you are quite aware of Swiss infrastructure I imagine, it is of course more than just an Army. As a confederation of Cantons established in 1291 they invested in themselves, their industries , and their mutual protection. Their famous banking industry was started with income derived from outsourcing soldiers and still maintains close ties within the Swiss Army not to mention guarding the Pope to this day. National service is still a part of Swiss culture although to a lesser degree today. The Swiss Redoubt became a part of the Swiss defensive strategy especially as WWII approached, it in addition to making it convenient for Germany not to invade the defensive infrastructure and geography of the Alps is very much why Switzerland maintained it's neutrality.

I spent sometime as a boy in Switzerland and was exposed to an indigenous way of life that many never believed. It has been both a little nostalgic and startling to explore the information you can now find.
Warning some of these videos are long and if you tap around enough you may just mess with your German.

Swiss Army SAURER 6DM - Gotthardpass ( almost the center of the Redoubt, much more there than the eye can see) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA8jpEK3iAc
Swiss Military Bunkers : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Numva8I2UV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kisnLc5rkY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iubhH_wizyU

Real Estate for sale: http://www.ar.admin.ch/internet/arma...html#faq000100

http://www.ar.admin.ch/internet/arma...chbautenv2.pdf

Old School : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAnk...pmAVtH&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAnk...v6et1DDDpmAVtH

Great Site for the Mountain Huts: http://www.sac-cas.ch/en/huts/search-a-hut.html

* Sind Werner und Hans sprechen Romanisch ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBZZ2WlOSAU

[Golf1echo]

I understand the 30 min back seat truck drive isn't for everyone but a nice run of 9 large trucks up and over the pass. These drivers took what I take to be the old road but there was a lot more capacity on that slope. If you felt virtual kinetic pressure from across the valley and above you have good instincts, artillery fortresses Foppa and San Carlos are along the route....you may recognize the interchange on the route from the perspective of Foppa"s Artillery and mortar positions. The large Gotthard Fortress/ Schloss lurks below the mountain in addition to the many firing positions ( some of many little barns on the hillside) as well as mobile mortars and artillery. No doubt the roads and tunnels will move when directed There is the Gotthard Tunnel as well and this type of infrastructure is not unique to just this area. The culture of service is interwoven in with their society making things possible that would be difficult elsewhere.
Image from Foppa.
Image closer to where I lived in Graubunden Canton, they always said the roads, tunnels and bridges were active.

[PatrickS]

I remember a series of media reports back in November, revealing that the Swiss placed TNT charges in several bridges and tunnels linking Germany and Switzerland.

The systematic placing of explosive charges in crucial infrastructure started in 1975 and the most recent one was placed in a highway bridge in 2005.
The motivation behind this was of course the Cold War and the threat of a Soviet invasion. The Swiss assumed that simply due to the sheer amount of MBTs, Sovjet tank armies could cross Germany and invade Switzerland.

Though there are no detonators, the fear of TNT falling into the wrong hands, has led to the removal of several charges in recent years. Others however, remain in place and for obvious reasons the Swiss government won't give specific details concerning the remaining charges and their location.

The German counterpart to the Swiss system only consisted of the installation of explosion chambers, that were to be equipped with explosives when an invasion was imminent.


In general, I've always admired the Swiss for forming a peaceful society, while maintaining the ability to form a rather impressive resistance movement on short notice.

[mojaveman]

Have always admired the Swiss and being that some of my ancestors came from there I have a small fascination with the country. Going to do some research and go there one of these days.

[Golf1echo]

What would you eat? https://www.google.com/search?q=Swis...+food&imgdii=_

Where would you go? https://www.google.com/search?q=Swit...hVu4qrxmsgM%3A

[x SF med]

Interesting stuff a bout the Redoubt.

Too bad my Grandfather died when I was so young, he was one of the youngest Captains in the Swiss Horse Drawn Mountain Artillery between WWI and WWII. We still have a bunch of family over in the St Gallen area (Teufen and St Gallen).

[mojaveman]

Time to update the defenses for the mountain fortress of Europe.


http://www.businessinsider.com/switz...-system-2015-1

[Red Flag 1]

Originally Posted by Golf1echo

What would you eat? https://www.google.com/search?q=Swis...+food&imgdii=_

Where would you go? https://www.google.com/search?q=Swit...hVu4qrxmsgM%3A

Great pics of the food, and the country side. The photos of the frozen, and ice coverd autos, brought back memories or Germany. While not quite as dramatic, I recall nearly a week of fog, with sub-freezing tempratures. It made for some interesting challanges for walking, and driving. When driving, every car window had to be free of ice, and snow. Any uncleared window, was good for a 20 DM fine.

[Golf1echo]

x SF Med I am sure your Grandfather was very involved with the Redoubt and it's strategy, typically Swiss men served from the age of 18 until 55, since I have seen 20-30 years. Tuefen and St Gallen are not that far from the places I lived, Arosa und Zurch. Both Chur and Zurch are great transportation hubs. Davos is another Mountain resort with crazy long ski runs, I used to see the bicycle troops in summer there and elsewhere.

Mojave Man The big cities are interesting and lots to do but in smaller towns you can connect with locals and get more flavor for country life, guest houses are great places to start, my impression is that the Swiss are prudent as well as proud of their accomplishments. It is interesting to me that so much has been exposed but there is much the Swiss still do not say

Red Flag, ha, now that makes sense the place I was living the last several decades had just that weather in the Winter, on occasion, lots of my favorite weather 33f and rain and very cold down to 0f because of moisture. More than a few mornings wondering how to get the 1' of ice off so one could enter the vehicle.

In the following post is an older mail from a Swiss friend, I have deleted the links because they do not work so far I can not find the images he sent of his local units and equipment which serve the community and defense needs. Building codes are still quite robust and foundations do not have small arms in mind...they were concerned about nuclear forces at work, most houses of my friends all had serious basement shelters.

[Golf1echo]

Cont. Mail from friend:

Yup, I agree that I like the way things are done over here, with everybody chipping in. Sure, there's some griping about the mandatory aspect, but when the SHTF, everybody's happy there's a large contingent of trained people available to do whatever needs doing. In our parlance, that's "Tausend Hände", a thousand hands. Or many hands make hard work easy.

The choice aspect wasn't there, it's been introduced IIRC in 2003, before young enlistees didn't get a choice between military and civil protection. One aspect that's changed because of it is basic training. Since before the change civil protection was either "too old" or "not fit for military service", people already had some of the needed skills and just needed to enlarge on the missing stuff. Now basic training is three weeks, used to be 4 days. Us oldtimers often ask the young guns what the heck they were learning during those three weeks, but seeing they're just out of highschool, they probably need to be told stuff like "this is a chainsaw, you hold it at this end, not at that end. Once Mr Chainsaw goes VRRRRR, Mr Chainsaw is no longer your friend." :lol:
What's also new is that Army enlistees now get a choice to opt out of the Army and into civil protection. Let's face it, for some people the mindless tedium of some Army outfits just isn't for them. And in civil protection they feel they do something useful. Beats letting all that manpower and goodwill go to waste.

As for the Puch (the Austrian-made Steyr-Puch), I take it you mean their 4WD jeep. Not too enthused, trouble with it, it's too light to be able to pull our compressor trailer safely. Good for the other gear trailers though. As such, civil protection doesn't have them, we get them on loan from the Army whenever we hit the terrain. For all other stuff, we use Ford Transit vans (carries 10 people plus a gear trailer) and Toyota LandCruiser 4WD to pull the compressor and carry 8 people (just squeeze in).
Aside from the jeep, there was the Haflinger AP700 (actually still is, but model 710 troop carrier) 4WD transport. Here's a page with some versions, including missile launcher Bantam: Original link gone New Links: https://www.google.com/search?q=Hafl...iw=910&bih=428
https://www.google.com/search?q=mode..._AUoAA&dpr=1.5 ( This is the vehicle I saw the artillery troops using, it goes practically anywhere.)
Mountain farmers love these lil' mules!
The UniMoG, is, AFAIK not in service here, apart from municipal forestry and some fire brigades. Still, it's one hell of a vehicle, my stepdad had one in FG, Frog Army surplus. The mod possibilities on it are endless! And given it's a Mercedes, real good life on the engine too.
As for pure Swissmade vehicles, there's still some Saurer trucks around, testament to their longevity as the Saurer factory was taken over by Mercedes in 1983 and production halted. Still see the 6DM and 10DM Saurer on a daily basis (there's an army camp up the road) and in the neighboring town of Hinwil, there's Armeemotorfahrzeugpark (AMP) and logistics center, one of 5 in Switzerland.

Building standards, hmm, probably has to do that on the Continent in general, buildings are built for eternity it seems. People aren't as mobile as in the States, that's another factor I guess......

[Golf1echo]

Interestingly enough the American Constitution was influenced considerably by the Swiss Constitution, the second amendment to a large degree. John Adams was instrumental in this work.

The format will not let me copy but you will begin to find the references on p44 ( Enlightened thinking IMO):
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/law_r...-published.pdf

Switzerland's Executive Branch consits of 5 people who place great importance on consensus...it was argued that we should have 3.