Prior Service Waivers

[pjbluetogreen]

So as my name say I was an AF PJ for 8 years (training and Team time). This time last year i decided to put paper work in to go Blue to Green in doing so my the AF in trying to make Goals in force reduction Separated me under a different program instead of the Blue to Green program.
For the past few months I have been working with the local recruiter to get in to the Army with and 18x contract. I was told this week that USAREC has put out new guidelines for prior service 18x contracts that only allow prior service E 1-4 with no mention of waivers. Does anyone have in SA on this new guidance? and does the active duty guidance apply to the Reserve Groups as well?
Thanks for any input.
CL
Never Quit

[RndTblKnght]

I am posting the message your recruiter is referring to below. My advice would be to get in contact with the closest SF recruiter to where you are and ask them (www.bragg.army.mil/sorb). Also, contact the 19th or 20th SF Group recruiting teams to see what they can do for you. They may have avenues of approach that a regular recruiter doesn't have to help you out, but I'm not sure. I hope this information helps. Good luck!

From: Headquarters USAREC
To: All Recruiting Personnel


SUBJECT: Prior Service (PS) enlistments into the Regular Army (RA). (UPDATED)

1. This is an immediate message and requires dissemination to all
recruiting personnel.

2. This message is valid for 2 years from date of publication unless sooner
rescinded or superseded.

3. References:

a. Army Regulation 601-210, Active and Reserve Component Enlistment
Program, dated 8 February 2011 (with Operational changes), dated 14 June 2011.

b. Department of the Army Memorandum, Prior Service Accessions Business
Rules for Grade Determinations, dated 4 October 2011.

c. USAREC message 10-021, Operation Blue to Green Enlistment Program, dated
6 November 2009.

d. USAREC message 12-009, Prior Service (PS) enlistments into the Regular
Army (RA), dated 11 October 2011. (Rescinded)

4. The purpose of this message is to announce new guidance on Prior Service
(PS) enlistments into the Regular Army (RA). Administrative reduction is no
longer authorized to fill a vacancy.

5. Effective 14 October 2011, PS enlistments in all Skill Levels, to include
Soldiers from Sister Services applying for the Blue to Green (B2G) Program, are
restricted by critical MOS exception according to Human Resource Command (HRC)
Accessions Business Rules. This policy does not affect those PS already in
Delayed Status (DS). No reductions in pay grade will be favorably considered,
no exceptions.

6. This policy affects all Days of Service (DOS) Soldiers in pay grades E-1
thru E-4. Applicants with 179 days or less on Active Duty are considered DOS.
Applicants who never shipped to training and have ZERO days of service may apply
for an exception to policy thru Enlistment Eligibility and Processing Division.

7. This policy DOES NOT affect Soldiers who are removed from the Temporary
Disability Retirement List (TDRL). All Soldiers removed from TDRL will have a
formal electronic grade determination completed IAW AR 601-210, Chapter 5-51f.

8. The HRC Business Rules will be updated periodically by HRC (see part II of
this message).

a. Applicants in grade E-5 and above must submit a formal electronic
request for grade determination to CG, USAREC IAW with AR 601-210, Chapter 3-17.

b. If applicant is MOS qualified in an MOS listed for his/her pay grade in
paragraph 1a of the HRC business rules; approval will be granted in his/her grade
in current PMOS.

c. If applicant is not MOS qualified for a MOS listed for his/her pay grade
in paragraph 1a, then grade will be approved to retrain in an MOS listed in
paragraph 1b of the HRC business rules for his/her pay grade.

d. Applicants in pay grade E-4 and above who hold MOS 09L, 18B, 18C, 18D,
18E, 18F, 37F, 42R, 42S, 46Q, 46R, or 89D can request an exception to the
Business Rules. Send exception request thru GCR as a grade determination.
Exceptions are not always favorably considered.

9. If an applicant does not hold the grade and MOS that has an open vacancy
listed in paragraph 1a of the Business Rules and there are no retraining
vacancies in current grade listed in paragraph 1b of the Business Rules, request
for grade determination for the purpose of enlistment in the RA will not be
favorably considered due to lack of vacancies in MOS and grade.



%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
141600 October 2011 (EST) USAREC MESSAGE 12-013 Part II
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: Headquarters USAREC
To: All Recruiting Personnel


MEMORANDUM FOR U.S. Army Recruiting Command (RCRO-EEP), Ft Knox, KY 40121.

SUBJECT: Prior Service Accession Business Rules for Grade Determinations
(ref AR 601-210)

1. This memorandum supersedes the memorandum dated 4 October 2011 and
provides new guidance to USAREC in the vacancies that may be filled. These
Business Rules are all encompassing for Prior Service (PS)/Days of Service (DOS)
vacancies.

The following vacancies are available provided the applicant is otherwise
qualified.

a. Vacancies by grade and MOS (changes monthly based on the needs of the
Army):

(1) Grades E-1 thru E-4 - 35P (language dependent) or 91F (see note
below).

(2) Grades E-1 thru E-4 - Must already be AIRBORNE qualified - 13B,
13T, 25S, 35F, 35N, 91F, 92A or 92Y.

(3) Grade E-5 - 35F, 35L, 35N, 35P (language dependent), 46R or 91F (see
note below).

(4) Grade E-5 - Must already be AIRBORNE qualified - 92Y.

(5) Grade E-6 - 35P (language dependent).

(6) Grade E-7 - no vacancies.

(7) Grade E-8 - no vacancies.

(8) Grade E-9 - no vacancies.

NOTE: Prior Service applicants that held PMOS 45B are now MOS qualified in MOS
91F.

b. If no vacancy exists, the following MOS will be used for retraining
(changes monthly based on the needs of the Army):

(1) Grades E-1 thru E-4 - 18X.

(2) Grade E-5 - no vacancies.

(3) Grades E-6 and above - no vacancies.

c. If applicant holds the grade and MOS that is listed in paragraph 1a
above, the applicant will enlist for Option 18, (U.S. Army First Assignment);
Prior Service Accession Branch (USAREC) will validate MOS qualifications.

2. For applicants who require a grade determination, Prior Service Accession
Branch (USAREC) will determine the enlistment grade as follows:

a. Applicant must enlist in the Delayed Status (DS) within 30 days of final
grade determination. He/she must understand that the vacancies constantly
change; if the grade determination expires prior to enlisting into the DS, they
could be subject to disapproval.

b. If an applicant does not hold the grade and MOS that has an open vacancy
listed in paragraph 1a above and there are no retraining vacancies in current
grade listed in paragraph 1b above, he/she will not be granted accession at this
time. Administrative reduction is no longer authorized to fill a vacancy.

c. Training opportunities exist for MOSs and grades listed in paragraph lb
above, however, training is limited.

3. If a renegotiation is approved the DS Soldier may enlist under current HRC
business rules or the HRC business rules in affect at time of entry in the DS.

4. All PS/DOS applicants that hold an Additional Skill Identifier (ASI) may
submit for an exception to policy without regards to the listed MOS vacancies in
paragraph 1a above. Not all exceptions are favorably considered.

[Surgicalcric]

The 18X option is off the table for prior-service candidates in the NG.

You can however enlist in the NG, possibly even into one of the NG SF companies, then after you are ready, attend SFAS and start the SFQC shortly thereafter. There are plenty of threads here addressing the prior-service to NG SF process.

Let us know if you have any remaining questions.

Crip

[1stindoor]

AR 601-210 covers the Regular Army and Army Reserve Enlistment Program. AR 614-200 section 5-5 covers the Special forces assignments (policy and selection criteria). Both ARs discuss the various waivers that are commonly out there. Beyond that I would call the Special Operations Recruiting Battalion for more detailed information. Good luck.

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by RndTblKnght

I am posting the message your recruiter is referring to below...

Nice post, appreciate the help.

[mark46th]

Good luck, PJ- I met some quality people working with the PJ's out of Nakhon Phanom in SE Asia.

[pjbluetogreen]

Thanks for the Help gents. I will see what i can do with this new info.

[Surgicalcric]

As I said earlier, there are plenty of threads on here discussing the NG SF option, the enlistment process, and the varying procedures (state to state) to get to the SFQC.

If you need any other assistance please feel free to ask.

Crip

[mark46th]

PJ- I hope you picked up on the "Language Qualified" phrase that was used often. If you are not competent in a foreign language, start studying one now... It will only help...

[goon175]

I am a current recruiter, and 18x is only available for E-1 to E-4.

That being said, there can be exceptions made. The recruiter you are working with most likely takes you as just another prior service guy, not really recognizing your back ground. The exceptions that need to be made are above his level. I would contact the SF recruiters at the nearest Army installation, let them know your background, etc. I know this has worked in the past for PS who have exceptional backgrounds (for example, a commisioned officer from the Navy who wanted an 18x contract). Good Luck!

[goon175]

All PS/DOS applicants that hold an Additional Skill Identifier (ASI) may
submit for an exception to policy without regards to the listed MOS vacancies in
paragraph 1a above. Not all exceptions are favorably considered.

Also, take note of this part. As a PJ, you obviously hold valuable ASI's.

[1stindoor]

Originally Posted by goon175

Also, take note of this part. As a PJ, you obviously hold valuable ASI's.

Nice point, considering he's probably already MFF and Dive qualified.

[exsquid]

The problem is he posses the requisite training for award of the ASIs but not the ASIs because he was USAF and not USA. There has to be an exception for someone w/ those skills though. If not, go see the NG.

x/S

[goon175]

Ok, so this is a long post of USAREC messages, but they apply to you, and probably a lot of other guys who visit this site:

From: Headquarters USAREC
To: All Recruiting Personnel


SUBJECT: Operation Blue to Green (B2G) Enlistment Program. (Updated)

1. This is an IMMEDIATE MESSAGE; Deliver to all recruiting personnel.

2. References:

a. Army Regulation 601-210, Active and Reserve Component Enlistment
Program, dated 8 Feb 2011, (with operational changes), dated 14 Jun 2011.

b. Army Regulation 40-501, Standards of Medical Fitness, Rapid Action
Revision (RAR), dated 4 August 2011.

c. Department of the Army Operation Blue to Green Implementation Plan,
dated 7 February 2005.

d. Title 38 of the United States Code, Sections 3011 and 3012.

e. Title 38 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Section 21.7020.

f. Department of Defense Directive 1205.5, Transfer of Members Between
Reserve and Regular Components of the Military Services, dated 22 April 1995.

g. Department of Defense Instruction 1205.19, Procedures for Transfer of
Members between Reserve and Regular Components of the Military Services, dated 3
April 1995.

h. Department of Defense 1312.1-1, DOD Occupational Conversion Index, dated
April 2003.

i. Deputy Chief of Staff, G-1 (DAPE-MPA) Current Memorandum, Subject:
Enlistment Incentive Program Message.

j. USAREC Message 10-021, Operation Blue to Green Enlistment Program, dated
6 November 2009. (Rescinded)

k. USAREC Message 10-177, Conversion of Sister Service Occupational
Specialties to Army Military Occupational Specialties (MOS), dated 3 August
2010.

3. The purpose of this message is to update the procedures for the B2G program.
The Air Force and Navy engaged in a force-shaping program to reduce their active
duty end strength. They are currently offering Airmen and Sailors opportunities
to retrain, separate, transition to their Reserve Component or enlist in the
Army. This program applies to those Airmen and Sailors choosing to enlist into
the Regular Army only. Although the United States Marine Corps (USMC) and United
States Coast Guard (USCG) are not engaged in a Force Shaping initiative, this
program also applies to Marines and Coast Guardsmen who meet the eligibility
criteria outlined in this message as this is an inter-service transfer policy.

4. Program Qualifications:

a. ADMINISTRATIVE

(1) Meet eligibility requirements outlined in AR 601-210, Chapter 3
except as modified by this message.

(2) Primary target audience will be in the grades of E-1 to E-5.
Service Members (SM) in the grades of E-1 to E-4 will enlist in the same grade,
and retain current date of rank. SMs in the grade of E-5 and above will have
their eligibility determined by CG, USAREC. Instructions for electronic
submission and processing of Grade Determinations and RCP Exceptions for B2G
applicants will be forwarded to Enlistment Eligibility and Processing Division,
in accordance with current Prior Service business rules.

(3) All B2G applicants are restricted to current HRC business rules
except for those applying for OCS and WOFT.

(4) Advanced pay grade is authorized based on education credentials
earned while on active duty in another service or prior to entry onto active
duty IAW provisions of AR 601-210, Chapter 3-17.

(5) Questionable cases concerning Retention Control Point (RCP) should
be forwarded through appropriate chain of command to HQ, USAREC (RCRO-EEPD) for
clarification and final determination, via exception workflow.

b. MEDICAL

(1) Meet the retention standards in Chapter 3 of AR 40-501, Standards of
Medical Fitness.

(a) Date of HIV test must be within 6 months of discharge from the
other branch of service.

(b) Separation physical must be within the last 5 years, and must
have the applicant's color vision determined.

(c) SMs having a "3" in their physical profile must have their
medical record reviewed by the USAREC Command Surgeon for retention purposes.
Battalion Operations will forward supporting documentation via GCR to HQ USAREC
Waivers labeled "Blue to Green P3 Review". The following documentation must
accompany the review:

1) DD Form 2807 and DD Form 2808 or SF 88 and SF 93.

2) Medical Evaluation Board/Physical Evaluation Board
proceedings and associated documents.

3) Service profiling documents.

(d) SMs must meet Army in-service height and weight standard as
prescribed in AR 600-9. Height and weight will be validated by the Station
Commander (SC) and annotated on DA Form 5500-R/5501-R body fat computation sheet.
If the SM exceeds table weight per AR 600-9 a body fat screening is required.
The 5500-R/5501-R will be executed and completed by any Commissioned Officer
currently assigned to USAREC. The form will be placed into the SM's enlistment
packet by the recruiter and scanned into the SM's ERM by the Guidance Counselor
(GC) under Document Type "Medical" and Form Name "Other Medical Document".

(e) SMs must hand carry full medical and dental records with them
upon separation from the Air Force or Navy.

(2) All SMs who are required to attend BCT will "NOT" process as no
medical action. These SMs will take a full physical at MEPS.

c. OTHER QUALIFICATIONS

SMs transferring within this program can enlist without regard to number
of dependents.

[goon175]

Continued:

5.  Coordinating instructions:

    a.  SMs choosing to process for the Army will obtain an approved DD Form 368
through their Servicing Personnel Office.  The 368 must have a projected Re-Entry
Code, Separation Program Designator (SPD) code, Expired Term of Service (ETS),
Air Force Specialty Code (AFSC) or Navy Rate, and annotation of any lost time in
whole days, provided in the remarks block on page 2.

        (1)  If the SPD code requires a waiver, normal channels will be used for
the waiver process.  If the narrative reason for separation is for "reduction in
force", "force shaping", or similar and accompanied by an RE-3, no waiver will be
required.  This applies to the B2G program only.

        (2)  The 368 is valid from the date of approving authority's signature
until the individual ships for training.

        (3)  Request that the separation date is Monday-Wednesday only.  This 
will further ensure that there will be no break in service.  The SM's ETS must 
be within 180 days of the approved Conditional Release.  The SM's ETS date will
"NOT" be scheduled during the month of December due to Exodus.

    b.  Processing instructions for Recruiters:

        (1)  Build the SM in ARISS and complete an enlistment packet IAW AR 
601-210, Chapter 3.

        (2)  Use aptitude scores from the Reenlistment Eligibility Data Display 
(REDD) for input into ARISS.

            (a)  If retesting, the SM may take the Armed Forces Classification 
Test (AFCT) at their local education center and supply the score sheet to the 
recruiter.

            (b)  SMs that test at MEPS will only be administered the CAT ASVAB.  
SMs are also authorized to test at a Met Site.  SMs must be projected to test.

            (c)  MEPS is authorized to administer special tests (i.e., DLAB, 
DLPT) if necessary.

            (d)  All SMs will be asked if they are pending any Military charges. 
If it is determined that the SM is pending Military charges then processing will
be discontinued.  Forward a charge review via GCRc to Bn Ops.

        (3)  Obtain a certified true copy of his/her physical.

        (4)  Project the SM through ARISS to process at MEPS.  SMs must be 
projected at least 72 hours prior to processing.

        (5)  Police checks are not required for these SMs with the exception of a
Sex Offender check.  Sex Offender check is only required for current duty
station.  SMs that return as positive on a Sex Offender check will not be 
processed.

        (6)  All conduct (moral) information must be listed on the PEI/PEI 
SF 86.

        (7)  Conduct waivers are not needed for charges that occurred prior to
USN, USAF, USMC, or USCG enlistment.
        
6.  Processing procedures for GCs:

    a.  SMs must be projected at least 72 hours prior to processing.  The remarks
"Blue to Green" must be annotated in the remarks block on the USMEPCOM PL727 to
inform MEPS personnel that they are processing.

    b.  Ensure the SM meets eligibility and required documents are scanned into
ERM at the time of being placed DS.  Document requirements for citizenship, Sex
Offender check, education, marital and dependent verification, etc. must be in
accordance with AR 601-210, Chapter 3.

        (1)  The SM's DD Form 214 will not be available at this time, but must be
hand-carried on ship day and scanned into ERM.  GCs are to inform Airmen that
they are to call their separation section at commercial (210) 565-5897 or (210)
565-5000 for a scanned copy of their DD Form 214 at time of entry in the DS.  The
Airmen are the only personnel that can request a copy of their DD 214, due to the
Privacy Act.  Recruiting personnel are prohibited to contact the separation
section's number listed above.

        (2)  All SMs will be asked if they are pending any Military charges.  If
it is determined that the SM is pending Military charges then processing will be
discontinued.  BN Ops via GCR will forward a charge review to USAREC G3 for
determination of continued processing.

    c.  Submit the build to REQUEST and contact the ROC to pull a reservation 
for the day after the SM's ETS or release date, verified from page 2 of the 368.

        (1)  The SM's ETS date must be on a Monday-Wednesday.  

        (2)  GCs are to ensure that a Federal or Training Holiday does not 
interfere with the ability for the SM to ship the day after their ETS date.
ETS must be within 180 days of the approved 368.  The SM's ETS date will "NOT" 
be scheduled during the month of December due to Exodus.

    d.  SMs in grade E-1 through E-4 whose service classification converts to 
an Army MOS may select from a vacancy list for duty assignment.  SMs must have 
worked in the service classification (MOS) during the last three years for a 
valid conversion.  If the service classification does not convert, the SM will
be offered retraining based on the vacancies in REQUEST.  SMs will enlist for 
a minimum term of service (TOS) of 3 years if service classification converts.  
If the service classification does not convert and retraining is required, the 
TOS will not be less than 4 years based on MOS requirements.  The eight year 
Military Service Obligation (MSO) will not change from the original enlistment.  
All E-5's and above will have a grade and MOS determined by CG, USAREC. B2G 
applicants are restricted to the HRC business rules.

    e.  If the SM is placed into a Delayed Status (DS) for an MOS that has a 
special requirement (i.e. Airborne stamp, flight physical, etc.) they will be 
informed they must be qualified by their Service for the requirement and provide 
results to their recruiter to be verified by the GC at least 14 days prior to 
ship date.  GCs will then scan the updated physical into ERM.

    f.  Airmen, Sailors, and Coast Guardsmen will attend Basic Combat Training
(BCT).  

    g.  SMs enlisting under this program may be eligible to receive incentives
(PSEB) provided they are qualified and select an incentivized MOS or assignment.

    h.  SMs who have not met Montgomery GI Bill (MGIB) TOS requirements (30 
months), will be informed that they must not incur a break in service in order to
remain eligible for the MGIB.  SMs that did not elect the MGIB at the time of Air
Force or Navy enlistment are not qualified to enroll at the time of Army
enlistment.

    i.  SMs must provide current service medical and dental records to the GC
prior to shipment to training.  Upon departing MEPS, the SM will hand carry 
records to the Reception Battalion.

    j.  SMs enlisting into an MOS that requires a security clearance will be 
treated in the same manner as an Army or Army Reserve non prior service 
applicant.  USAREC Form 1227 will be initiated and reviewed by the Security 
Assistant (SA) for those that require a Secret Clearance.  The SI will 
process all applicants that enlist for a MOS that requires a Top Secret 
Clearance.  There will be no ENTNAC or fingerprint submissions at the time of 
enlistment.  MEPCOM will complete a hard copy fingerprint card at DEP-OUT, 
this will be part of the Ship Packet to the training base.  The gaining 
reception station will submit the Secret or Top Secret Clearance at the time 
of arrival at the training base. 

    k.  SMs enlisting into an MOS that requires a Secret or Top Secret 
Clearance will have their level of clearance checked by requesting a JPAS 
check with their respective detachment.

    l.  If MOS does not require a clearance or the B2G Soldier already 
possesses the proper clearance level for that MOS, no NACLC or Fingerprint 
submission is required.

    m.  GCs will provide the SMs enlistment packet to the MEPS personnel 
the day before shipment in order to perform a Quality Review Program (QRP) 
screening.  The complete ship packet is required.

    n.  GCs will provide the current acceptable documents to the MEPS 
personnel for a Personnel Enlistment Interview (PEI) for each SM on 
ship day.

    o.  Packet breakdown will be IAW current policy.
    
7.  MEPS processing:

    a.  MEPS will ship B2G Soldiers under this program IAW current
regulations.

    b.  Dependent travel is not authorized while the Soldier attends training.

    c.  Privately Owned Vehicles (POV) are not authorized while the Soldier
attends any periods of training.

    d.  MEPS will complete the DD Form 4, DD Form 93, and the transportation
orders.

    e. Complete Hard Copy fingerprint cards on B2G shippers that do not hold the 
clearance level for the MOS enlisted for.