New Firearm Options

MeC86 · 09-12-2008, 06:52

My Department is now giving us the option of 3 new .45 firearms to carry. We are getting away from the .357 Sig due to overpenetration issues in recent shootings. Given the option, which one would you pick?

82ndtrooper · 09-12-2008, 07:26

I like the SIG P220 but the Glock21SF holds almost twice the ammo in a double stack mag.

Although I hate Glocks, but I could learn to live with it if I had to.

JJ_BPK · 09-12-2008, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeC86

Given the option, which one would you pick?

Hi-cap mags win when other factors are normally even.. IF and I say IF you have the hands for a fat grip.

I don't have large hands,, but I feel very comfortable with my G23.. The 1st mag is a G23 HC,, 2,3,4 are G22 HC mags. I picked up the G23 for CCW, and wanted something a little shorter/smaller, and still have punch.

So,, I gotta ask why the 21sf? Isn't this is the short grip model?? Why not full size??

MeC86 · 09-12-2008, 08:00

The Glock 21SF still has 13 round magazines. Glock just trimmed down the size of the grip to make it more manageable for people with smaller hands.

JJ_BPK · 09-12-2008, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeC86

The Glock 21SF still has 13 round magazines. Glock just trimmed down the size of the grip to make it more manageable for people with smaller hands.

I had herad the 21SF called the "Short Frame", which is what Glock picked,, sould have been Slim Frame..

Tx

Defender968 · 09-12-2008, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by 82ndtrooper

I like the SIG P220 but the Glock21SF holds almost twice the ammo in a double stack mag.

Although I hate Glocks, but I could learn to live with it if I had to.

Having carried a Glock 21 for several years I still prefer my Sig 220 every day of the week and twice on Saturdays. Glocks are easy to shoot, and do hold more rounds, however Glock has had problems with their guns blowing up. Portland PD had 2 blow up in a month, which prompted them to recall their model 21s from their officers, LAPD subsequently got away from the model 21 as well. On top of these issues Glocks also have issues with lite strikes, and I have personally had one while at the range training with my duty Model 21. In my mind there is nothing more disconcerting than when I draw my weapon, squeeze the trigger and nothing happens. If I'm going to trust my life to a fire arm I want it to work every time, no questions, draw, squeeze, bang without fail. As soon as my department authorized back up guns, I purchased a Sig P239 in 40 cal, that way if my Glock blew up or FTF I'd have a fighting chance of walking away from the engagement.

It's a personal choice for you, more rounds are always good, but in my mind it's not the number of rounds fired but the first accurate round that will win the engagement in a LE situation. I'm of the opinion that you should shoot as often as your department will allow or you can, and in realistic situations, walking, moving to cover, from odd angles, from behind cover, while on the ground, one handed, week handed, after running, or fighting, etc I believe in training to be ready for as many situations as possible, not just standing stationary punching holes in a piece of paper. If you train like you plan to fight hopefully if you have to draw whatever weapon you choose you will go home at the end of the day, but me personally, I would choose one of the two guns that doesn’t have a history of failing/exploding. I’m partial to Sig 220 because I've owned one for nearly a decade and it's never FTF.

Best of luck and stay safe out there.

wood1271 · 09-13-2008, 20:54

In my 20 plus LE career I started with a S&W 66, changed to a SA Colt .45, then finally settled on a Sig P-220. I have military experience with the 92F as an instructor and armorer. In my opinion the Sig P-220 is one of the best pistols out there. I have carried the same P-220 for over 10 years and fire an average of 100 rounds per month. My 220 has all original parts has maintained excellent accuracy and reliability. I keep my mags loaded 24-7 and have never had a problem.

My old department issued the Glock 22 and 23 and we had constant issues. My current organization issues 19's and they have constant problems.

Last Thursday I attended the LETC in Utah County Utah and took a dynamic pistol class taught by Bank Miller, a former DEA agent and firearms instructor. This was a combat pistol course. We shot strong hand only, support hand only, standing, moving, kneeling and sitting. We fired over 1000 rounds in an 8 hour day. There were 25 shooters with 2 Sigs, 3 92F's, 1 H&K and 20 Glocks represented. I saw the Glocks fail to feed, double feed, fail to lock back and a host of others problems. I saw a front site fall off and a trigger spring break. Glock perfection? I don't think so. The other 5 pistols had no problems.

In my opinion you see so many Glocks in LE because they are cheap and most agencies have to go with the lowest bidder. Again, this is my opinion. I know plenty of people who swear by the Glocks, but I have been around them since they first hit the market and I simply have seen too many problems. Go with Sig.

El Cid · 09-19-2008, 17:18

Can you get the Sig P220 SAO? That would be my pick if available. The more I shoot Glocks, the more I understand why people say a gun is most reliable in the caliber for which it was originally designed. If I have to carry a Glock, I prefer it in 9mm. Kimbers seem to have their own issues lately. Even if I had to suck up the DA/SA 220, that would be my pick.

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 09-19-2008, 20:59

I carried a SIG 220 (Old Model) both on patrol duty and on SWAT. I never had a misfire or any problems with it. I was just looking at the brand new version in the gun shop the other day. This has the longer grip angle on it and the light device. I thought it looked 'sweet.' I'd not hesitate to carry a SIG 220 .45 or a SIG 226 in .40 Cal.

blue02hd · 09-20-2008, 08:10

Even though I carry a Kimber myself and feel comfortable with my training with it, I chose the Sig for it's double action trigger and decock feature that would appeal to a greater pool of shooters/ trainees. If the full sized glock was an option, I may have leaned that way simply for round capacity, which is mitigated with the "SF" model.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the crowd on this one,,,

BTW, WOOD1271, I thought yours was a GREAT post on this subject, and remains the reason I scour this site. Thanks,,

El Cid · 09-21-2008, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue02hd

If the full sized glock was an option, I may have leaned that way simply for round capacity, which is mitigated with the "SF" model.

You might be thinking of the new compact 45, Glock 30 SF (the G30 isn't new, just the SF variant of it). As the was posted above, the 21 SF has the same capacity, and uses the same 13rd mags as the regular G21. In fact, all G21 mags now come with a notch in the front that allows them to be used in either weapon as the SF has a different, ambi mag catch.

Viking · 09-23-2008, 05:25

Three months ago I would have said Kimber, but mines been up at Kimber for a month now so.... My Sig has never even hiccuped.

**Team Sergeant** · 09-23-2008, 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

Three months ago I would have said Kimber, but mines been up at Kimber for a month now so.... My Sig has never even hiccuped.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Im sooo surprized!

1911 clones......

Get yourself a HK

You'll never look back.

Mec86,

Go with the SIG.

Team Sergeant