If you HAD to carry a 9mm... - Page 4

APLP · 12-25-2005, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

APLP, it sure does look like the Le Mas ammo is effective in rapidly rendering healthy liver into paté. But just for my own enlightenment, was that PLATE or just mild steel, and what was the thickness/gauge?

Phantom,
The plate shown in this thread was 5mm heat treated aluminum that was rated as 3A hard armor and used for hardening transport vehicles until about three years ago. The velocity requirements to penetrate most 3A soft armors for the Le Mas Ltd. rounds are similar to the requirements to penetrate the same hard 3A plate shown. Generally speaking that 3A aluminum armor is about equal to 11 gauge stainless. 2100 fps will start to penetrate 3/16 stainless, and 2300 fps will start to penetrate 1/4 stainless. The Le Mas short range armor piercing 9mm CQB bullets will start to penetrate 3/16 AR-500 steel around 2750 fps.

Stan

mormongunner · 01-13-2006, 17:22

Glock 19 loaded with Cor Bon DPX when I carry a 9MM

Phantom · 01-13-2006, 18:42

Cool ammo.

As far as what to carry if you 'must' carry a 9mm...

Back when I was young and dumb, I used to carry an old 9mm LLAMA GOV'T Model , if it ever got a chance to sample some of that ammo, it might get dragged out of storage. I used to carry it SOB "off-hand" mirroring my older surplus COLT M1911A1. The LLAMA was a REALLY nice copy but almost no parts commonality, but many parts were aggravatingly close.

It was a really good pistol, and almost always hit the target with slightly tighter groups than my Colt, but I never would have considered it a Primary Weapon.

If I absolutely, positively HAD to carry a 9mm and a 9mm only.. then that damned issue Baretta M9 if the senario was mil.. HK USP, or my old LLAMA if not.

Of course, if the Llama went into service as I primary then I would want a Kimber 1911 .22 for my offside to halfway balance out my old rig. Even better, but requiring a change of the old rig, would be a MK II of the "Spartan II" or "Stealth-B" variety.

Michelle · 01-13-2006, 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Ditto......

9mm- A .45 set to stun..

TS

I'm laughing, but this assessment seems so harsh. The only option I have is a 9mm because my hands are too small to properly negotiate a 45.

I like NDDs response.

And I'm fairly certain that if I could spend even 4 hours on a range with Team Sergeant and my 9mm, I would be more of a force to be reckoned with than 70% of the popluation that has a 45.

And velocity is not a bad thing, especially if you have hollow points? One very wise man from this forum told me once "A 38 can do a nice bit of damage to the cranial structure if you know where to place it."

m1
p.s. Sig Sauer 225

**The Reaper** · 01-13-2006, 20:41

M1:

If the grip size is the problem, try one of the .45 GAP pistols.

TR

HOLLiS · 01-14-2006, 10:59

Michelle, TR gave great advice. Just about any size pistol in a 9mm can also be found in other more potentant calibers.

Ever notice you don't hear much talk about 38 special. Look at the ballastics of 9mm and 38 Spec. For all pratical purpose they are the same. There are some inbetween calibers, such as 40 S&W that may work better. Also with the availability of conpensated barrels, the recoil of 45 can be greatly reduced, if it is objectional to you.

Or you can follow the rules of any gun nut, Buy one of each caliber and design. More guns are prefered to less guns.

Air.177 · 01-14-2006, 19:03

M1
If you get a chance at SHOT show, go by Springfield's booth. Their new XD in .45acp has nearly the same size grip as the standard frame models do and it holds something like 13 rounds of .45. If you feel the need to go to a .45, this may be a viable option for you.

Personally, I still like my 9mm pistols, They are the only ones I can afford to shoot as much as I feel I need to.

YMMV
HTH

Good times,
blake

Doc · 01-14-2006, 19:12

It has to be a 9MM?

CZ-75.

Nice and simple.

Combat short gun.

Doc

zeroalpha · 01-14-2006, 20:44

I HAVE to carry a 9mm. A Sig 226 and a Glock 26

M'eh, they are free ;-)

**Team Sergeant** · 01-14-2006, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroalpha

I HAVE to carry a 9mm. A Sig 226 and a Glock 26

M'eh, they are free ;-)

Sorry to hear it.....

I sold the only one I have years ago........... many years ago......

Now I only carry the "man-round".....

(I crack myself up sometimes.....)

Sinister · 01-14-2006, 22:05

Shoot the dog shit out of every 9mm you can put your hands on, then take the one that fits you the best and doesn't shit the bed when you practice.

Brand loyalties mean nothing if it doesn't work.

"Rangers, DON'T get sentimental about your equipment!"

**Team Sergeant** · 01-15-2006, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinister

Brand loyalties mean nothing if it doesn't work.

I agree..... I've watched to many handguns fail on the range.

There's no doubt in my mind why all these weapons instructors are inventing new misfire procedures, too many worthless handguns are being issued to our law enforcement officers.

The inherent design flaws (and fluff masters) are causing our nations LEO's to carry very poorly designed weapons to defend themselves with and some have no choice but to use the issue piece.

A 9mm will work fine and long as the weapon that shoots it works, everytime.....

Sinister · 01-15-2006, 12:36

My experience TDY'ing to different embassies is you get issued whatever they have at that particular mission. I've had the range of Browning Highpowers, Glocks, SIGs, and a long time ago, more often than not, Smith and Wesson Model 10s, Model 15s, and Ruger Security Sixes.

Long guns were Remington 870s, Uzis (if you were lucky) and Ruger Mini-14s (if you weren't).

If beggars can't be choosers, your training with different guns should have breadth and depth or you're hosed.

Michelle · 01-15-2006, 12:55

Thank you Sir Reaper, HOLLiS and Air.177

I have more homework to do at SHOT now. Fortunately, I should have some pretty stellar help along the way!

m1

Trip_Wire (RIP) · 01-15-2006, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

I agree..... I've watched to many handguns fail on the range.

There's no doubt in my mind why all these weapons instructors are inventing new misfire procedures, too many worthless handguns are being issued to our law enforcement officers.

The inherent design flaws (and fluff masters) are causing our nations LEO's to carry very poorly designed weapons to defend themselves with and some have no choice but to use the issue piece.

A 9mm will work fine and long as the weapon that shoots it works, everytime.....

I agree with what you have said for the most part. It would seem that a lot of LE agencies have gone to the .40 caliber from 9 MM. The Glock Model 22 is very high on the choice of platforms to launch the .40 followed by the SIG.

IMHO: The .40 Caliber is becoming the standard round for LE agencies.

As you have stated the 9MM will work; however, I think that bullet selection is the a key to to all effectivness, as well as bullet placement in all calibers.