08-12-2005, 21:16
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#61
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lacey Washington
Posts: 737
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
I cannot explain exactly how, but I am merely another knuckle dragging trigger puller, it is not my job to explain it......Frankly, I am at a loss as to why we are not currently using it for at least the SOF troops. There are apparently big players trying to squash it, a disinformation campaign by individuals who should know better...
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TR:
You already started explaining this concept with your comment on velocity. I certainly hope you continue with your theory. So far it makes good sense. I don't want any of the ammo to shoot. You have fired enough for me too. Just want to pick your brain as you apparently have an excellent idea as to how and why this ammunition works as claimed.
I read the articles that have been indicated and they have not provided any information concerning how and why. One of the articles hinted that the ammo was being given to SOF. Wonder what happened.
I wonder about something else concerning this ammunition. You put a steel plate in front of a less dense material and it penetrates the plate but fragments in the less dense material. OK -- how about the other way around? How about three sheets of plywood / sheet rock and then the steel plate? Seems to me it can't work one way and not the other.
Gene
Last edited by Roguish Lawyer; 08-12-2005 at 21:23.
Reason: quote repair
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Gene Econ is offline
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08-12-2005, 22:05
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#62
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,825
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I am probably not qualified to speculate, but I have never seen it hit a "soft" target without deploying. Virtually every live tissue shot I have seen has deployed in the target with no exit wound.
Three sheets of drywall and a steel plate, it will not touch the plate.
Armor plate followed by drywall will be hit by remaining payload or the steel slug knocked out of the plate.
APLP can probably elaborate.
I have not fired the LeMas pistol rounds on live tissue, but I have shot a bunch on other targets and have seen their 90 gr. .45 ACP register 2300 fps plus on my chrony.
I feel that it is only fair to say that there are a lot of people who claim that the rounds are bogus, that they do not perform as advertised, and are merely conventional bullets.
My question for them is always, "How many rounds of LeMas have you fired, and what did you shoot with it?".
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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08-12-2005, 23:21
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#63
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 154
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
I am probably not qualified to speculate, but I have never seen it hit a "soft" target without deploying. Virtually every live tissue shot I have seen has deployed in the target with no exit wound.
Three sheets of drywall and a steel plate, it will not touch the plate.
Armor plate followed by drywall will be hit by remaining payload or the steel slug knocked out of the plate.
APLP can probably elaborate.
I have not fired the LeMas pistol rounds on live tissue, but I have shot a bunch on other targets and have seen their 90 gr. .45 ACP register 2300 fps plus on my chrony.
I feel that it is only fair to say that there are a lot of people who claim that the rounds are bogus, that they do not perform as advertised, and are merely conventional bullets.
My question for them is always, "How many rounds of LeMas have you fired, and what did you shoot with it?".
TR
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Hello Gene,
In response to your prior post, and TR's response, folks really do have to fire the rounds for themselves for a whole lot of reasons, some of which might be considered scientific, and for other rationales that you just have to see for yourself with your own trigger finger.
I am on the road and do not have specific data to attach to any post, but if this thread is still alive next week I will to post some pictures that will be of interest. There is a long list of DOD active duty and procurement structure facility personnel who have declined repeated invitation to observe in person at secure facilities the scalable effect that the BMT munitions demonstrate in armor and living tissue.
The 9mm BMT armor piercing CQB bullet has been shown by the esteemed ballistic expert Gary Roberts to penetrate 18 inches of calibrated ballistic gelatin with no fragmentation or expansion, yet the same armor piercing bullet design demonstrates non repairable live tissue destructions without over penetration in both appendage and thoracic cavity impacts. The identical BMT 9mm CQB bullet is capable of penetrating all soft 3a body armors and up to 1/4 inch T-304 stainless steel from a colt 9mm subgun yet the currently procured duty military and law enforcement ammunition products can do absolutely non of the above.
After 5.5 years, and tens of thousands of non R&D Le Mas Ltd. BMT bullet designs carried down range, not one single claim of the bullets not performing as advertised in armor or living tissue have been reported by end users to date.
Edited for worse grammar than usual and breaking the rule to never post after drinking crown on vacation, my apologies.
Last edited by APLP; 08-13-2005 at 08:05.
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APLP is offline
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08-13-2005, 14:23
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#64
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The state that can't count it's ballots.
Posts: 429
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
I do not know of any way for you to "obtain" the LeMas ammo.
TR
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Here you fellas go. http://www.rbcd.net/distributors.htm. Good stuff.
__________________
"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me".
-Isaiah 6:8
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Spartan359 is offline
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08-13-2005, 14:31
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#65
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,825
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spartan359
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Not exactly the same.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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08-13-2005, 14:57
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#66
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The state that can't count it's ballots.
Posts: 429
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Not exactly the same.
TR
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I too tried to get LeMas and was stonewalled by the website. Unless of course you "accidently" lose some of your stash TR.  I'll pay for shipping! What's the difference? I googled around and found nothing about how LeMas works. I guess my Google is weak.
__________________
"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me".
-Isaiah 6:8
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Spartan359 is offline
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08-13-2005, 15:27
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#67
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,825
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spartan359
I too tried to get LeMas and was stonewalled by the website. Unless of course you "accidently" lose some of your stash TR. I'll pay for shipping! What's the difference? I googled around and found nothing about how LeMas works. I guess my Google is weak. |
I don't think you want every Tom, Dick, and Harry running around with the stuff. Why would a non-LEO, former Navy guy need it?
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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08-13-2005, 15:51
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#68
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The state that can't count it's ballots.
Posts: 429
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
I don't think you want every Tom, Dick, and Harry running around with the stuff. Why would a non-LEO, former Navy guy need it?
TR
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You are right. I wouldn't want irresponsible people with that type of round. As for non-LEO I volunteer for the local sheriffs office for the ride along program/I work there. Also for hunting big game. A buddy of mine has a house in Ketchakan so we hunt up there. Not much to hunt in Florida besides giant lizards.
__________________
"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me".
-Isaiah 6:8
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Spartan359 is offline
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08-13-2005, 16:07
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#69
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,691
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spartan359
You are right. I wouldn't want irresponsible people with that type of round. As for non-LEO I volunteer for the local sheriffs office for the ride along program/I work there. Also for hunting big game. A buddy of mine has a house in Ketchakan so we hunt up there. Not much to hunt in Florida besides giant lizards.
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You do not want this stuff to hunt game with.
It does bad things to the inside destroying alot of meat.
Spartan, thank you for volunteering your time; god nows every agency needs there volunteers but being a volunteer and being an LEO is a little different.
__________________
"This is the law: The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." - John Steinbeck, "The Law"
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Smokin Joe is offline
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08-13-2005, 16:19
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#70
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The state that can't count it's ballots.
Posts: 429
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Quote:
You do not want this stuff to hunt game with.
It does bad things to the inside destroying alot of meat.
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Roger that.
__________________
"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me".
-Isaiah 6:8
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Spartan359 is offline
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