Advanced Sharpening Notes

[BrianH]

I received my Tru Grit Norton stone, tried your WD-40 "observation trick", and I'll be damned if I didn't put the sharpest edge on my Strider BT that I've ever felt. I'm almost afraid to have it out of the sheath.

In other news, I can't WAIT for my micarta Sebenza to come in the mail. Now if I could only justify to my girlfriend that I absolutely NEED that Lonewolf D2...

[Bill Harsey]

Originally Posted by BrianH

I received my Tru Grit Norton stone, tried your WD-40 "observation trick", and I'll be damned if I didn't put the sharpest edge on my Strider BT that I've ever felt. I'm almost afraid to have it out of the sheath.

In other news, I can't WAIT for my micarta Sebenza to come in the mail. Now if I could only justify to my girlfriend that I absolutely NEED that Lonewolf D2...

Good job on the sharpening.

Your on your own with the girlfriend.

[Prester John]

That's why I got rid of mine... girlfriend that is.

BrianH,

Don't you mean MY Strider BT? Thanks for working on it and all. I hope I can re-claim my room and possesions when I return from leave.

[Bill Harsey]

The type of edge that comes off the Norton Fine India stone (as previously described by me in this thread) has been proven, in both field and bench testing to last the longest in hard knife work. Let me explain why I say this:

This is not just my opinion but the result of extensive field testing by some very experienced hunters using knives in Africa, Australia and all over North America who then bring their observations back to us in our "group".

This "group" I work with for knife testing consists of two American Master Blade smiths, a senior scientist/knifemaker from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories and one of those hunters described above plus Chris Reeve and myself. We also have a couple of those Crucible Steel metallurgists around in case we have a question. This is far from a mutual admiration society.

This "group" meets once a year for a formal presentation and works together year around on heat treating, edge geometry and sharpening. We have done so for over a decade now.

If we can't get the sharpening right, there is no way to test and compare different alloys of steel and focus on the optimum heat treat. We have learned there is a direct relation to the sharpness of cut, grain size and type of the grit in the sharpening stone that makes a knife cut aggressively and hold it's edge as long as possible.

The Norton Fine India is the standard we use for all field and bench testing work because the edge that results from correctly using this stone is the best we've found.

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Bill:

If I could elaborate afrom an amateur perspective, that angle is one of the reasons that I have suggested carefully marking the sharpened portion of the edge with a Sharpie or some other marker to see how much you are taking off and where.

If as you sharpen, you see the color of the marked edge is not being removed uniformly, you are changing the edge geometry.

TR

I finally purchased water stones--800, 1200, and 6000-- and dug into sharpening some carbon steel blades. I was really struggling until I remembered your Sharpie tip. I discovered I was missing out the front quarter of the blade edge...lord knows what I was grinding off up there. I still haven't mastered the triple-axis elbow turn up-and-out that I need to get the very tip sharpened without rounding it off. But I got the blades razor sharp for the first time where I can slice paper with the lightest touch. Very cool. The Mora with the distinct bevel was easiest because the edge geometry was easiest to follow. Stropping the blades on the back of my belt 50x per side made a surprising difference.

Thanks for the tip.

[mugwump]

8 years, 4 months

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by mugwump

8 years, 4 months

Well done, Sir.

TR

[Streck-Fu]

I know that I'm new but appreciate these thread bumps for the reminder that these threads exist.

[Barbarian]

Originally Posted by mugwump

The Mora with the distinct bevel was easiest because the edge geometry was easiest to follow.

That type of bevel design is often referred to as a "Scandinavian grind" and dates far back into human history. The angle of the cutting edge is usually the same or similar to the angle of modern blade designs, however, "scandi" edged blades lack the master bevel of more recent blade designs. This does effect the blades performance to some extent, during use. A trade-off, really.

I apologize for the hijack. Also, good bump.

[mugwump]

Originally Posted by Barbarian

...The angle of the cutting edge is usually the same or similar to the angle of modern blade designs...

No hijack at all. Good to know, I replicated the angle I used on the Mora when I sharpened the kitchen knives and it seemed to work well, but I was just guessing.

That $17 Mora is currently my favorite knife

My stepson's old fart Ojibwe relatives re-profile their "white man's" knives so they are flat on one side and beveled on the other, kind of like a chisel. They keep the flat side against the hide (so lefties and righties need opposite bevels) when skinning so they don't ruin the hide with thin spots. (They're getting $100-$250 for a nice, smoked brain-tan hide depending on the quality) The bevel still seems to work well carving wood. They use a whetstone constantly though. They might take 6-8 strokes across their stone ten times while butchering a deer but it doesn't seem to slow them down at all. Some of the blades I've seen are worn to pencil-width.

The young guys, they pull the hides off the deer using a chain and their pickup, like peeling a sock off your foot. No thin spots on their hides either.

[mugwump]

I'm getting an Ojibwe whetstone for Christmas if they can lay their hands on one by then. I'll post a pic. They use a kind of beach stone from the shores of Lake Superior. It's jet black, silky smooth, very fine-grained basalt. They're round to oval in cross section, about an inch in diameter and 6-8 inches long. Kinda hard to find in the right length because the same wave action that rounds them tends to break them up. A good whetstone is treasured and it gets passed down from generation to generation. Breaking a whetstone is a personal tragedy and a very bad omen.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by mugwump

That $17 Mora is currently my favorite knife

IMHO, the best bargain around in knives.

TR

[Leozinho]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

IMHO, the best bargain around in knives.

TR

Agreed.

just FWIW - I've purchased two Mora Companions in the last year (one carbon, one stainless) $13.80 shipped with Amazon Prime.

One came with a very slight microbevel; the other is a true scandi. (They are at work. I don't remember which one came with what.)

You can hardly see it with the naked eye, but if the edge catches the light just right you'll see the microbevel. It's visible under a loupe.

I've read on other forums that this microbevel is relatively new from Mora and was implemented to help with edge retention. If you are going to sharpen a Scandi that happens to have a microbevel by laying the edge flat on the stone, be aware that you'll have to take a bit of metal off first before you are hitting the apex.

[Barbarian]

Originally Posted by mugwump

My stepson's old fart Ojibwe relatives re-profile their "white man's" knives so they are flat on one side and beveled on the other, kind of like a chisel. They keep the flat side against the hide (so lefties and righties need opposite bevels) when skinning so they don't ruin the hide with thin spots.

That's cool. Many flint or chert "hide scrapers" can be found in my AO, left behind or discarded by Shawnee and Cherokee. They also are beveled on one side and flat on the other. I guess "The more things change, the more they stay the same."