Women in Combat?

[Trapper John]

Just so you can sleep better, I read somewhere that ADM McRaven is doing pretty much as you suggested in commissioning studies of the problem. I think the issues are obvious and a case will be made for exempting women in combat roles within SOCOM. I will try to find that information and send it to you.

Sleep well

[The Reaper]

For those of you who have never been on a team or carried a team ruck on a patrol, let me elaborate.

There are twelve people on a fully manned SFODA.

You have your own mission gear. Each MOS has a different load. That may include one of the multiple radios, antennas, kit bags, aid bags, a collapsible litter, demo, breaching gear, machine gun, sniper rifle, shotgun, maybe a mortar (with bipod and baseplate) or AT weapon, binos, LASER targeting designator, spotting scopes, etc., etc.

You have your weapon (normally a pistol, too) and ammo for your weapon. 30-40 pounds of body armor. Helmet. Smoke grenades. Frags. Night vision gear. Cameras. Batteries for all of your equipment. A gallon of water per day. Eye and ear pro. GPS. Maps and compass. Survival gear. Blow out medical kit. MREs (maybe 1-2 per day, because of the weight) Poncho, poncho liner. Maybe cold weather, infil/exfil, or mobility gear. NBC protective gear.

Team gear. Extra radios, antennas, batteries, machine gun ammo, mortar or AT rounds, demo, IV bags, IED jammer, mine sweeper, etc.

THEN, you can add whatever meager personal gear that you can carry. Maybe a spare t-shirt, a couple of pairs of socks, a sawed off tooth brush. For a week's patrol.

This will total somewhere north of 100 pounds, at times, more than 140 pounds. Studies have shown that trying to move with more than 35% of your body weight is injurious to a healthy, well-condtioned adult male.

If you think this is an easy task, go find a friend who weighs between 100 and 140 pounds. Put them on your back and try to carry them around piggy-back for ten minutes. Imagine doing that in the thin air at 15,000', on a 45% slope, for days on end, while remaining alert for IEDs, enemy, hostile wildlife, and generally things that will hurt you, and being prepared to effectively return fire in a couple of seconds. Gravity may be politically incorrect, but on this planet, it is inevitable.

I have a wife and a daughter. All other considerations aside, neither of them could even lift that load, much less do it for an extended period of time.

If one of them were on a team, and could not carry her share, guess who does? Her teammates, as all of the mission gear still has to be carried.

Is that fair? Do you think you might resent having to leave behind your one spare t-shirt, your spare socks, a spare mag, a radio battery, or an IV bag?

I have watched a fellow soldier bleed to death. It was not a pretty sight, but I never bitched about carrying med supplies or other team gear again.

At what cost, do we waive standards for the sake of social experimentation?

More importantly, are we prepared to accept the cost and consequences?

TR

[Box]

Two more females wash out of the Marine Infantry Officers course.

The arguments will soon become:

Why do they have to climb the rope twice?
Why does it have to be a twenty foot rope; why can't they lower it to 20 feet?
Why are they even climbing ropes; what if someone falls and gets hurt !

[Team Sergeant]

If you posted in here (and are not a Special Forces soldier) and were not asking a "Question" your post is now gone. Re-read the sticky (below). This is a forum where anyone can ask a question directed at SF soldiers, and in turn we answer, period. Want to discuss this further, place your own thread in the "Discussions" forum.


Special Forces Questions

This is a forum where civilians can "ask" the Special Forces soldiers past and present "Special Forces" related questions.

Those questions are then answered by Special Forces soldiers, period.

Questions asked by the general public should NOT be answered by the "general" public.

If you do not have the title of "Quiet Professional" you may ask a question, but leave the "answers" to the QP's.

[Pete]

Female Troops Medevaced from Afghanistan at Higher Rate Than Male Comrades

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2013/07/09/fe...#ixzz2YfUIZPrr

"..............Overall, nearly eight times as many males (n=21,046) as females (n=2,673) were medically evacuated; however, the rate of medical evacuations was 22.0 percent higher among females (46.0 per 1,000 dp-yrs [deployed person-years]) than males (37.7 per 1,000 dp-yrs). Of all medical evacuations of males throughout the period (n=21,046), the most frequent associated diagnoses were battle injuries (26.5%), non-battle injuries (15.0%), musculoskeletal disorders (14.6%), and mental disorders (11.4%). In contrast, the most frequent diagnoses among evacuated females during the period (n=2,673) were mental disorders (16.5%), “signs, symptoms, and ill-defined conditions” (15.3%), musculoskeletal disorders (13.2%), and non-battle injuries (8.9%)....................."

“signs, symptoms, and ill-defined conditions” (15.3%) - That is in addition to the mental disorders (16.5%).

Tell me again why we are doing this?

[hharke]

Originally Posted by Dusty

Concur. As I've stated before, Ma'am, as long as the current standards aren't modified, there should be no reason to exclude a female from entering a combat MOS.

I don't agree with the chauvinistic misogynists who compare it to a man trying out for the Bearded Lady gig at Barnum and Bailey.

They (Gen Dempsey) have already announced they will not change the standards for the men. Do not clap, as Paul Harvey said. "Here is the other half of the story!"

They plan on coming up a second set of of standards for women. That is so they can say with a straight face "We did not change the standards"

[ajls]

I have a good friend (sort of an adopted 2nd dad) who served in the Special Forces in Vietnam. I have a great deal of respect for him, and am only looking to find out if he was conned.

The region I live in has an annual Military Appreciation Day festival. Last year my friend met a woman wearing a green beret along with BDU's while walking around the festival, and she told him she earned the beret and Tab going through the SF course
My question is this: Since SF is a combat force, is it even possible for a female( as of 2012) to take the training and get qualified? From the responses and discussion in this thread and others, I would have said no, but since my friend met this woman and seems to believe her, I am not as certain now.

Thank you for your time.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by ajls

I have a good friend (sort of an adopted 2nd dad) who served in the Special Forces in Vietnam. I have a great deal of respect for him, and am only looking to find out if he was conned.

The region I live in has an annual Military Appreciation Day festival. Last year my friend met a woman wearing a green beret along with BDU's while walking around the festival, and she told him she earned the beret and Tab going through the SF course
My question is this: Since SF is a combat force, is it even possible for a female( as of 2012) to take the training and get qualified? From the responses and discussion in this thread and others, I would have said no, but since my friend met this woman and seems to believe her, I am not as certain now.

Thank you for your time.

Only one was awarded the beret after legal action, and she never served on a team.

After she got the beret, the door was closed and no other women have attended the SFQC.

She retired as an MI Colonel, IIRC.

TR

[glebo]

Is her name Katie Wilder??? that's who it was...(that "won" her Beret...through legal means).

[longrange1947]

I am curious as well. Tried to get old Katie girl captured during an Empire Glacier. The OPFOR didn't want her either.

Yes, she was pissed at me. I was so hurt by her stare. Not

[Dusty]

When I see a female play linebacker on a legitimate NFL team, I'll be OK with seeing one on an ODA.

[Max_Tab]

I've said it before; I think all colleges that receive "ANY" govt money need to have a mandatory 20% of the players be female. People would have a much bigger problem with there alma mater's sports team not being the best, then they would by having a female in SF.

[ajls]

I'm sorry, but I don't know her name. I can ask if he got it from her, but as this woman was (or at least appeared to be to my friend) active duty, I wouldn't think so. We were talking about women in combat units & he mentioned he met this girl. That's why I wanted to know if it was possible.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by ajls

I'm sorry, but I don't know her name. I can ask if he got it from her, but as this woman was (or at least appeared to be to my friend) active duty, I wouldn't think so. We were talking about women in combat units & he mentioned he met this girl. That's why I wanted to know if it was possible.

Yeah, get her name, rank, unit, blah.

[Box]

Originally Posted by Max_Tab

I've said it before; I think all colleges that receive "ANY" govt money need to have a mandatory 20% of the players be female. People would have a much bigger problem with there alma mater's sports team not being the best, then they would by having a female in SF.

That is the most DEAD ON illustration I have heard on this topic since I was a slick sleeved Private.

The same smug group of pricks clamoring for equality would shit in their designer slacks if they thought that "equality" was going to be forced upon them.
...which oddly i the same group of politicians pushing the affordable health care act while their staff works furiously to exclude them from it.

...who cares if the military has marginal combat effectiveness, the middle linebacker is suffering from menstrual cramps and my team isn't going to cover the point spread.

FUCKFUCKFUCK !!!