On the Run

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Beef

Snickers bars were mentioned above. LOL! When I cross trained as an 18C in 1981, one of the Demo committee guys ONLY ate Snickers in the field. Six a day. He froze them, wrapped them in pairs in multiple layers on aluminum foil and froze them some more. Then rolled them in a doubled poncho liner. Could go 5 days in the summer and much longer in the fall and winter. The rest of the committee backed him up. He always said, "Man cannot live by Snickers alone! You gotta have coffee!"

My long-winded .01

I love the dark chocolate Snickers! I try to always carry them but I am stingy with them because they're hard to find.

Pat

[The Reaper]

koz - Good tip on the Trail Boss, will have to check it out. 10.7 grains of any other powder I know will not even fill 50% of a .308 case.

PSM - Understood that in arid environments, water sources tend to be collection points. BTW, if you power up a cell phone, or maybe even leave the battery in it, you are done and will be found in less than 60 minutes. I would not take any modern electronics, except NVGs.

dollarbill - I would think you would get a lot better performance out of a deep cycle battery than a car battery. Maybe even throw a solar panel on it to get as much as you can out of it. Good, easy, fast travel along the water, but it is also not easy to hide from people along and over it, and it is likely to be watched. The point in the instructions to be walking 100 miles is to see what weapons and associated gear you would take and move tactically with. Using a sled and a boat to take a safe's worth of guns kind of defeats the purpose.

PSM - You got it. All you need is a place to hide the items you were dumping for later. A couple of 5-6 gallon buckets woule be good for the short stuff, a 55 gallon drum is also nice, but you can't exactly grab it by the handle and haul ass with it.

koz - No lie about the drift. I expect the same issues with the .300 Blackout, though the 220 gr. and 240 gr. bullets at 1050 fps should hold a little better than the 180 due to their improved BC. The challenge is getting the rifle set up to reliably run everything from 110s to 240s.

Beef - Sounds like you are taking just what you need. I don't think I would want to be chasing you through the woods. The Colt is a good pistol, maybe a little fragile, especially with the years on it and metallurgical changes. I am thinking I need a Ruger .22/45 Lite for myself. With the threaded barrel, it should be a natural for a little rimfire can. Mmm, Snickers!

Brush - Yep, a .22LR will kill a deer, often cleanly, in the right hands. Not sure how many people are capable of doing that on a regular basis, and cleaning and jerking a deer might take a little while.

Pat - I will be stingy with pretty much everything I had to hump. When I was a grunt, I always hated the guys who would go out for five days with one canteen, half the mags they should have had, a couple of meals, and a 1/2 can of Cope. Then spend the next four days bumming from everyone else. They were fast and light, but IMHO, had no pride or self respect. On Day Five, a cigarette is worth big bucks. Hmm, that might be the same in this scenario....

TR

[Ape Man]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

If there is no trail through the woods, I would pick an azimuth and set it on a compass that glowed. I would know the general pace count and would try to stay on azimuth while moving fast.

Does it matter if you come out a couple of hundred meters to either side of your desired exit point? If not, I would consider running it on a general heading and move fast.

You could also terrain associate and follow a stream or depression through the woods.

What is on the other side of the woods and to either side? See "handrails" and "backstops" in land nav.


TR

Thanks for the response.

"Handrails" and "Backstops" get to the heart of what my mental problem is. I understand how I would navigate if concealment was not an issue. You make the river your handrail, the highway your back stop and you are good to go for most of the trip I would need to take. You try to stay on the high ground as much as possible and focus on covering ground.

It is trying to pick out a trail that is navigable and still in cover that gives me headaches. I could make a trail through heavy forest for much of my trip with only short hops over open spaces. The mile behind my house is just a start. But the reason for that is that in most cases it is rough steep ground unprofitable to farm that was given back to the state.

It is no tipple canopy, but it is hard for me to imagine that it gets much darker than under a stand of mature pines. And even when you are under maple, there is not much light at all when you have cloud cover (60% of the time around here). So on my preferred route, I see myself scrambling around in the dark going up steep hills with no trail trying count paces and hoping that I recognize the ravine I am heading for before I go down into it.

Maybe I am over complicating it. Maybe I should just take an easier route and trust the dark for my cover. I don't know. That is why I asked.

But I do realize it is one of those things that you can't learn by talking about it. You have to spend some time doing it. And thanks for the tip about rangers eyes.

The next question that bothering me is how do I cross the Mohawk river and the I-90 corridor?

It is a fun mental exercise.

[GratefulCitizen]

Something to consider in urban settings when trying blend with the environment during movement.
Not politically correct, but reality nonetheless.

http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

Something to consider in urban settings when trying blend with the environment during movement.
Not politically correct, but reality nonetheless.

http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/index.html

Good point.

Obviously, cutting through backyards on the run with a long gun in your hand will raise more attention than walking by on the sidewalk, appropriately dressed, with a small pack on and no guns visible. In fact, in some areas, you might arouse less suspicion dressed shabbily and pushing your goods in a shopping cart, riding a bike, or jogging in PT clothes.

There are places and times for each. Unless I had some network or overwhelming reason to stay, I would be getting out of the metropolitan area and into the woods as soon as possible.

Once there, I would try and work routes that kept me away from populated areas and under the most overhead cover possible. Pray it isn't hunting season.

As Ape Man pointed out, you will have large danger areas to cross along your path, some of which will be unavoidable. You would want to cross them as inconspicouosly as possible, preferably at a place and time when there is minimum visibility and traffic.

If you are moving in woods and want to stay undercover, you should not be moving up hill or in the in the higher areas. An untraveled ravine with relatively light vegetation would be great for a tactical foot movement where you were tring to minimize exposure.

And you would not believe how much darker a triple canopy is than a pine forest.

TR

[dollarbill]

[QUOTE=The Reaper

dollarbill - I would think you would get a lot better performance out of a deep cycle battery than a car battery. Maybe even throw a solar panel on it to get as much as you can out of it. Good, easy, fast travel along the water, but it is also not easy to hide from people along and over it, and it is likely to be watched. The point in the instructions to be walking 100 miles is to see what weapons and associated gear you would take and move tactically with. Using a sled and a boat to take a safe's worth of guns kind of defeats the purpose


TR[/QUOTE]

Thanks Reaper. I always thought the river was my best and only route and never gave it any more thought. Your post #119 got the wheels spinning. If the river is taken out, I would definitely have to navigate the suburbs. I still think I would get all my weapons (Rem 870 and the two 40 cal.) Would also get the hiking gear:
Black Diamond Infinity 60
Hilleberg AKTO Shelter
Francis 27-8 alcohol stove
Aqua Pure water filtration (a little bottle filed with iodine crystals. Good for about 2000 liters)
550 cord
1st aid kit
Dehydrated fruit
MRE's
Small Altoid Mint case with various size fishing hooks inside the lid with 100 feet of 12# test wrapped around a pencil,various weights and small lures.
Compass and map
What I'm thinkink is ( please correct me if I'm off) Once I determine the direction I need to go, work my way through the suburbs. Pick up one of the major roads heading in my direction. These roads have moderate to heavy wood line. Stay well into the wood but follow the road. The reason behind following the road is water is really scattered in Indiana. Along the roads there is small subdivisions to resupply water and possible raid gardens.

[fng13]

This thread got me thinking and I'm wondering about adding a sling shot to my kit.

Lightweight, ammo everywhere, quiet, relatively easy to use for squirrel and other small game at short range.

Seems like a worthwhile addition.

Also, not a weapon of course, but something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that I think my lock pick set might come in handy if I was on the run.

[Sdiver]

A sling shot/wrist rocket .... nice idea.
Get one of those and a couple extra bands/slings when the one being used gets worn out, maybe 2 or 2.5 pounds top, added to your bag.

Looks like I've got some shopping to do.

[Rob_Frey]

Originally Posted by Brush Okie

Another stealth weapon people might want to consider is a cross bow. I am an archery hunter and a bow can take down large as well as small game. I dont have a cross bow but you can get optics for them such as a red dot for night use.

As well as scopes with illuminated dots at three yardage lines. I have a Ten Point scope on my Ten Point Crossbow. Very accurate within its range limits.

I haven't posted my escape plan, because with my physical disabilities, I'm not walking 100 miles in less than a month, if I can make it that far at all. But I really do enjoy this thread a lot.

[dollarbill]

After reviewing this thread I've decided my fire power was a little weak. A friend is selling a couple of weapons, one I was sort of interested in. Shot him an offer I thought he would laugh at. I'm now the proud owner of a mini thirty. Will leave the house on my 100 mile journey with it.

[Old Dog New Trick]

Reading this thread and the responses has prompted another question in my mind. Not to take from TR's podium too much, but -

How have you guys chosen to load bearing all this equipment? Lets take for instance you have a 45Lb B-O-B (average 3-day pack), 15-20Lbs of weapons (some of you have another 20Lbs of ammo), and then there are some specific "must haves" that are either climate or geographical in nature...

Describe how you load out on your person each and every piece of equipment deemed important enough (or by importance to the success of your endeavor) to get you from point "A" to point "Z" being 100-miles away?

Be specific, and think about what you can and cannot afford to jettison should you have to to evade capture or get in an extended fight where time or failure means game over. Be very specific about how and where you will carry the weapons you have chosen (including edged) and sufficient ammo for each type.

This is a mental exercise whereas each piece of your "kit" is assembled and carried in such a way that if you are forced to run and hide or out run you can dump the unnecessary comfort items and continue with the mission in the best possible outcome.

[Ape Man]

Originally Posted by fng13

This thread got me thinking and I'm wondering about adding a sling shot to my kit.

Lightweight, ammo everywhere, quiet, relatively easy to use for squirrel and other small game at short range.

Seems like a worthwhile addition.

Also, not a weapon of course, but something I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that I think my lock pick set might come in handy if I was on the run.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever used a sling shot to hit small game? When I was younger, I had one and I had ambitions of getting squirrels with it. As it turned out, I was lucky to hit the broad side of the barn with that thing.

Now I am one of those people who had to really work to become a half way decent shot with a rifle. And I know that there is people out there who can just pick up anything and hit their target. But from my limited experience, the learning curve on a sling shot is way sharper than it is on a firearm or even a bow.

[fng13]

Originally Posted by Ape Man

Just out of curiosity, have you ever used a sling shot to hit small game? When I was younger, I had one and I had ambitions of getting squirrels with it. As it turned out, I was lucky to hit the broad side of the barn with that thing.

Now I am one of those people who had to really work to become a half way decent shot with a rifle. And I know that there is people out there who can just pick up anything and hit their target. But from my limited experience, the learning curve on a sling shot is way sharper than it is on a firearm or even a bow.

Yes actually I have, squirrels and birds (birds for fun before I knew better). I'm not sure if you mean the old style without a wrist support but those with the wrist support and a good sling aren't that hard to use especially at short range.

Maybe it's not a hit every time but it sure beats trying to ping them with a rock. You can get pretty close to squirrels and rabbits and stuff. You don't have to be a sniper.

I don't think the learning curve is higher than a firearm, especially not a pistol, but I was an outdoorsy kid. This suggestion was not to replace firearms but to add something that doesn't need extra ammo to be carried, although ball bearings are great for sling shots.

It's also certainly much lighter than carrying around a bow in the situation we are describing. I don't want to be lugging around a rifle, pistol, ammo for both, and then try to carry a bow or a crossbow. I don't know how some of you guys plan on carrying this stuff and moving with any sort of speed.

YMMV though

[Ape Man]

Originally Posted by fng13

It's also certainly much lighter than carrying around a bow in the situation we are describing. I don't want to be lugging around a rifle, pistol, ammo for both, and then try to carry a bow or a crossbow. I don't know how some of you guys plan on carrying this stuff and moving with any sort of speed.

YMMV though

I am totally with you on the load thing and I think carrying a sling is a great idea if you know how to use one. I know it is possible to use even the old style ones with out the brace to good effect. I saw a you tube clip of an old southern boy who could use one to hit unbelievable targets. He grew up dirt poor and that is how he got food.

My first sling was also without the brace so that might account for some of my frustration. Latter on, one of my brothers got one with a brace but by that time I had given up on the darn things.

[dollarbill]

Back pack:
Black Diamond Infinity 60L (3lbs3oz)
Hilleberg AKTO Shelter (2.5 lbs)
Trangia 27-8 UL/HA Stove (1.5 lbs)
Marmot rain gear
Maglite
1 stay can DEET
1 roll toilet paper
2 empty Gatorade bottles (to purify water)
2 liter camel back with siphoning tube
2 MRE's
2 pair of socks
Dehydrated fruit/beef jerky
Binoculars
Looks like a lot but it's all ultralight. Less than 25 pounds.

Butt Pack
Bic lighter and flint w/striker
Aqua pure iodine crystals
1st aid kit (3-4x4, 2-8x8 dressing, roll of gause, aspirin,antibiotics cream,cloth tape, mole skin and a suture kit)
550 cord
1 pair of socks
90 day supply of Blood Pressure meds
2 40cal mags.

In pockets
2 Mini 30 mag
Mini maglite
Fishing tackle ( Altoids tin mint case: various size hooks taped inside the lid, 100ft 12# test line wrapped around a pencil, some weights and small lures)
Compass

Xd40-tactical holster strong side, double mag holder on weak side.
Taurus Millennium ankle holster
MK 3 MOD knife weak side on belt
Mini 30 carrying, 2-20 round mags taped together (I'm old school)

Spare ammo would be carried in hip stash pocket on butt and back pack. Could also put spare ammo in side stretch pocket of back pack.

An excellent idea that was posted was to push a shopping cart. I'd also put change on clothing (to blend in)in a garbage bag and grab a small tarp. There's a Target less than a quarter of a mile away. I'd put pack, clothing and Mini 30 (with quick access) in the cart and cover with the tarp,drawing less attention. If I had to ditch the cart, weapon and pack could be easily taken.

If I had to dump the back pack, would at least grap the AKTO shelter and put as much ammo as I could fit around in the storage bag along with the shelter.