How do you carry it?

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by wet dog

I continually see "Muscle Memory" creep into dialogue regarding motion and conditioning, just not here but other threads as well.

While many know Anatomy is to form and Physiology is to function, I'm of the impression that there is no memory cells is muscle. I think that a muscle can be conditioned to best function in a proper position, like throwing a major league ball 100MPH, Michael Jordan at the free-throw line, and Team Sergeant shooting the "second bullet" in the same hole as the first, (and maybe a few others like him), but really, "Muscle Memory"?

Memory is a function of brain activity. It is the brain that tells the body what to do. It is not the muscle telling the brain, "you are in the right position, so let me throw, if you don't let go, I will miss, time is running out, time, time, time, ok., you we were late, let's try again. I'm in the right position, can I go now, please?"

"Muscle Memory" is one of the many things left over from the 80's training regimes.

Doc(s), set the record straight,

Thanks, WD

The term "muscle memory" is a bit misleading as there is no "memory" in the muscle itself. The information from the muscles, tendons and ligaments about stretch, contraction, position and movement are all relayed to and processed by the brain. Through repetition, a repeated action can take less and less conscious effort although all of the signals are still being processed and controlled by the brain. When someone talks about muscle memory, they mean an action they can perform at will without significant conscious effort. When a movement is learned to this level, altering the movement feels "off" due to subconscious expectations of signals that should be received.

Walking is a wonderful example of "muscle memory" - we all had to learn to walk as toddlers and, after much practice, we don't have to actively focus on which foot to put forward and when, how far to lean forward, how long our stride should be, when to pick up the back foot, etc.

My $.02...anyone else have any other thoughts?

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

The term "muscle memory" is a bit misleading as there is no "memory" in the muscle itself. The information from the muscles, tendons and ligaments about stretch, contraction, position and movement are all relayed to and processed by the brain. Through repetition, a repeated action can take less and less conscious effort although all of the signals are still being processed and controlled by the brain. When someone talks about muscle memory, they mean an action they can perform at will without significant conscious effort. When a movement is learned to this level, altering the movement feels "off" due to subconscious expectations of signals that should be received.

Walking is a wonderful example of "muscle memory" - we all had to learn to walk as toddlers and, after much practice, we don't have to actively focus on which foot to put forward and when, how far to lean forward, how long our stride should be, when to pick up the back foot, etc.

My $.02...anyone else have any other thoughts?

Well said, you must be in the medical field.

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

The term "muscle memory" is a bit misleading as there is no "memory" in the muscle itself. The information from the muscles, tendons and ligaments about stretch, contraction, position and movement are all relayed to and processed by the brain. Through repetition, a repeated action can take less and less conscious effort although all of the signals are still being processed and controlled by the brain. When someone talks about muscle memory, they mean an action they can perform at will without significant conscious effort. When a movement is learned to this level, altering the movement feels "off" due to subconscious expectations of signals that should be received.

Walking is a wonderful example of "muscle memory" - we all had to learn to walk as toddlers and, after much practice, we don't have to actively focus on which foot to put forward and when, how far to lean forward, how long our stride should be, when to pick up the back foot, etc.

My $.02...anyone else have any other thoughts?

I concur, I guess my question was rhetorical. "Muscle Memory" is one of those terms that I wish would just go away. I see trainers who while pointing at their arm with one finger explain muscle memory, and I think, you failed Anatomy right?

I'm placing muscle memory in the oxymoron catagory, beside, "good hospital food".

Thanks doc.



TS - will there be time to shoot one afternoon while in town?

[PedOncoDoc]

Originally Posted by wet dog

I concur, I guess my question was rhetorical. "Muscle Memory" is one of those terms that I wish would just go away. I see trainers who while pointing at their arm with one finger explain muscle memory, and I think, you failed Anatomy right?

I'm placing muscle memory in the oxymoron catagory, beside, "good hospital food".

I was on a team that was instructing Reservists in CQC prior to heading out to the sandbox. The lead instructor kept on referring to the "Suprasternal notch" (space where the breastbone ends and throat begins) as the "Jugular Notch" and about drove me crazy. Some of the PA/Paramedic/EMT's came to me during a water in/water out break to laugh about it and begged me to correct the guy.

Regarding the hospital food - some hospitals do better than others, and the VIP's often get outside catering brought to their rooms at some of the larger hospitals at which I've been.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by wet dog

I concur, I guess my question was rhetorical. "Muscle Memory" is one of those terms that I wish would just go away. I see trainers who while pointing at their arm with one finger explain muscle memory, and I think, you failed Anatomy right?

I'm placing muscle memory in the oxymoron catagory, beside, "good hospital food".

Thanks doc.



TS - will there be time to shoot one afternoon while in town?

I'll make time.....

[zauber1]

In reply to the original question: As one of the only two shoulder rig supporters, here are my antiquated reasons for this means of carry:
I carry while wearing a suit and/or sports jacket OR in the oppressive heat and humidity of the Dallas/Ft Worth area, a really loud print, oversize aloha shirt with the tail untucked. I am frequently in and out of law firms and downtown Dallas offices in my capacity as a law enforcement officer and need to pass unheeded.
Remember the oldest detective Fish in the TV show, Barney Miller? He was frequently in the restroom a lot (like me) and, you guessed it, wore a shoulder holster. Ever gone into a public restroom and looked for a convenient and safe place to place your weapon while doing your business?
I also find the shoulder rig balances out the extra magazines and cuffs on the other side without pulling down my waistline.

Originally Posted by PedOncoDoc

I was on a team that was instructing Reservists in CQC prior to heading out to the sandbox. The lead instructor kept on referring to the "Suprasternal notch" (space where the breastbone ends and throat begins) as the "Jugular Notch" and about drove me crazy. Some of the PA/Paramedic/EMT's came to me during a water in/water out break to laugh about it and begged me to correct the guy.

Regarding the hospital food - some hospitals do better than others, and the VIP's often get outside catering brought to their rooms at some of the larger hospitals at which I've been.

Too funny!

[WholeManin2010]

I have seen folks here speak very highly of Kramer's double-thick horsehide gun belts, and Crossbreed's IWB holsters.

Does anyone have experience with the latter's gun belts as well? Particularly those who may also have experience carrying with Kramer's belts. I am certain that Kramer's stuff is excellent, but at $142 plus a 9-week wait, the Crossbreed is tempting me...

[Oku]

Thought I might take a "swing" at "muscle memory"....it isn't.

The reference, though common and incorrectly named does refer to a learning process. I learned to call it "establishing a motor program".

What we're doing with high rep training is executing the same series of movements in a fixed pattern until such time as we no longer need to devote primary thought processes to executing them. Learning to walk is a great example (though most of us here learned to do it long enough in the past that we likely don't remember the learning process.) We no longer give a great deal of thought to walking other than "go" or "stop". However, if you take a careful look at all the movements and shifts in balance required to take one step, you'll find that it's not a simple process at all. The reason we don't seem to do the "calculations" in our heads every time we take a step, is that we've done 'em so much that walking has it's own "sub-routine" that we "run" in the background.

The same thing applies to carrying/drawing a sidearm and performing the "chores" that keep that piece of equipment operating. You establish a "motor program" for your draw, and it gets accessed by (for instance) an audible signal like gunfire (or the words "stick 'em up" or perhaps the beep from a pac timer), or maybe you see something "bad".....you won't think about exactly where the weapon is on your person, it'll seemingly "appear" in your hand...you may not even remember reaching for it, or making a decision to do so.

I was practicing on a range a few months ago and had failed to shift my phone away from the mag pouch when setting up....I went to reload and had the phone firmly indexed into the butt of the pistol before I realized it wasn't a magazine....

Motor Programs.....ask for 'em by name.

In answer to the OP's question....strong side hip or I'll use a "fanny pack" (Found one that doesn't say "Hey, I'm carrying"). My motor programs are MUCH better for hip, but getting pretty good with the pack also.

[122418b]

Strong side hip. Thigh rigs, worn just below body armor for tact use. If you are going to be in a car alot, cross draw or shoulder holster.

[33army]

In my younger more naive days, strong side thigh rig....it was a blackhawk serpa lock....until a former Q course shooting instructor fixed me while we were deployed and showed me the err in my ways. Then I was on to a nice hand stolen Iraqi hip holster.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by Streck-Fu

Shoulder holsters feel too strange to me as well and too many of them are horizontal. I am not comfortable waving my muzzle around even if covered. Especially in the car with my sons in the back seat. If I were to ever carry a shoulder holster, it would be a vertical so just in case it ever does discharge (however unlikely that may be) I don't send a round downrange.

Hug triggers officer's gun, kills woman


Pat

[Guymullins]

I carry either a Colt Cobra snubbie or a Star .45 PD in my strong side pocket and have my hand on it in all dangerous areas. While driving, the weapon is on the seat between my thighs. At night, in an open drawer at bedside. Hard on the pants fabric, but completely hidden at all times and at hand when needed. Would like a hammerless version of both weapons though.

[fasteddie565]

Originally Posted by Air.177

Strong side hip, Preferrably IWB

Same here

[JJ_BPK]

Hug triggers officer's gun, kills woman

Lucy,, splain this to me???

A hug from behind??