Precision Rifle

[frostfire]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

frostfire - You're thinking way too hard. The three rifles you've selected are quality pieces – and way more expensive than necessary. That is unless you’re buying them for the name and associated bragging rights. The two rifles pictured are both DPMS .308s. As shown (including optics) either one is approximately the same price as any one of your choices (without optics). Shooting Sierra 175s @ 2600fps they are both .75MOA rifles – the black one with an 8” group at 1000yds, the FDE one at 200yds (have to take it out and zero the new scope at a longer range to find out what it’ll do at 600). You don’t need brand name unobtanium/unaffordium to have an accurate rifle. The price difference is a lot of training ammo. Especially since you'll still have to get optics. MOO, YMMV.

Peregrino Sir,

touché. I'd be a liar if pride of ownership is not one of the factor. It's like buying P30 vs. G17 Ok then if those three are way too expensive, how much is the 8" group at 1000 yards rifle without optics? Do you take paypal?

Originally Posted by Gene Econ

FF:

None of the three will be very good at everything you want. Once again you are trying to find one rifle that will be good for everything and you will end up with one rifle that isn't very good for anything.

I would caution you concerning the notion that working out and practice will overcome elemental ergonomic design problems with rifles. It won't so a rifle that is barrel heavy and uses a prone stock isn't going to work for you off hand, kneeling, or seated. Thus, your overall intent of becoming a better marksman will not be fulfilled if you think this way.

Also, the .308 is basically an obsolete cartridge that is holding on only because the military still uses it. Only in competitive events where the rules require a .308 is it competitive. Expensive to load, mediocre accuracy by today's standards, and mostly high recoil all lead to problems if your intent is to become a better marksman.

I would say that even if you handload, you will throw a bit more than $.60 down the barrel each shot with a decent .308 load. If you buy in bulk and get drop shipments from Sierra. If not, look at $.8 per shot. You are better off with a .260 Remington. Half the recoil, 1/4 less cost, same barrel live, superior ballistics capabilities.

My suggestion is that you decide what you want the rifle for. If it is to hone your marksmanship skills, the .308 is not the way to go. If that is your intent, get a very good .223.

If your intent is three gun or High Power, look at 3 Gun and High Power web sites or visit their competitions and see what the winners are using. If your intent is those sniper competitions, see what their winners are using. You will see that they are all using rifles / cartridges / sighting systems that are focused on their specific sport.

So, decide what you want.

Gene

Gene Econ Sir,

as always, thank you for the education. Yes, I do look for a platform of compromise. Many told me my AK would suck at 2 gun, but I often beat those whose rifle + optics costed almost 10x as my system. The user, not the tool. Based on your previous advices, I do see where you're coming from though when it comes to pursuit of the highest level, the rifle must work for you.

When it comes to high power, I am following the footsteps of that Marine Recon coach of mine. After getting HM with .223, he went on to compete with M1A. If I'm not mistaken, I think he legged out or got the P100 with that rifle. The first time I got to use the M1A, I thought I had a laser for offhand, but my sitting and prone were complete mess. Since then, I have a personal vendetta with the .308 and wish to one day have second-nature, completely comfortable, proficiency with it. Thus, the interest in caliber regardless of the specific discipline. One of the platforms above is actually offered in .260 Remington.

Now, not doubting anything you wrote, but I searched everywhere for 260 Remington match that's cheaper than .308 match ie Federal Gold Match, Blackhills etc.. and I found zilch. Midwayusa, ammonow, ammunitiontogo, aimsurplus, cheaperthandirt, and son on. They all start at $30 for 20rds. On the other hand, some "match" .308 start at $16, $19 etc per 20 rounds. So please steer me to the place with 1/4 cost. Right now .308 seems to be the most economical second to the .223. Is reloading the only way to go?

Speaking of marksmanship, the other day I was helping to terminate the stereotype that officers can't shoot, and that AMEDD officer and marksmanship is an oxymoron. I helped 2 lady officers, one from not being able to zero to shooting 31/40 and another from 11/40 to 29/40. One told me to **** off, so that's that. I like the fact that one of them shares the perspective that regardless of job description, if one wears the army uniform and sees one self as a soldier, shoot-move-communicate should be a second-nature proficiency. Once again, all those shooting/coaching skill you, master Rick, and many others invested in me have not gone to waste. Train the trainer.

[Ramirez]

I went to the 1000 yard range today to prepare for my match next week. The "1000"yard berm was really 1075. So I had to come up another 5MOA. For me that was the hardest shot. 700-800 felt like nothing compared to trying to hit the 1075 target. I'm also pretty new at all this, and reading the wind is a big part. I'd miss a shot, hold to correct and the wind would change. All part of the game though I guess.


Ryan


Here is a link to a few pictures I took.

http://imgur.com/a/mYcs0#duxhI

[Buffalobob]

Take the stupid sling off and screw out the rear swivel if it is a stud. Go and buy you an expensive rear bag and fill it with heavy sand. Take off the teenie bopper flippers and put on the original lens covers that came with the scope. Move the bipod legs off the mat and into the dirt. Tell the imbecile next to you to not leave ammo lying in the hot sun.

[Dusty]

Where's your shooting socks?

[Ramirez]

Originally Posted by Buffalobob

Take the stupid sling off and screw out the rear swivel if it is a stud. Go and buy you an expensive rear bag and fill it with heavy sand. Take off the teenie bopper flippers and put on the original lens covers that came with the scope. Move the bipod legs off the mat and into the dirt. Tell the imbecile next to you to not leave ammo lying in the hot sun.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the sling and the swivel stud. Can you suggest a rear bag, I don't like the one I have at all. Flippers are staying , Also I can move my bi-pod legs into the dirt, but I thought that's what those straps were for.

Thanks in advance.

Ryan

[Dohhunter]

Get rid of those cursed flip covers. The number of times I've laid open my eyebrow with that fucking red finger of death while crouched in some contorted position with a Whitetail in front of me is > 2. Then again, I'm the stupid one for not removing them when that number reached 1.

[koz]

Originally Posted by Ramirez

Can you suggest a rear bag, I don't like the one I have at all.
Thanks in advance.

Ryan

I bought the TAB gear bag but I really don't like it. It has the airsoft pellets as filler and it's too rigid - can't get the rifle to seat in it. I opened it and got rid of the pellets and filled it with bean bag filler (get it a Hobby Lobby, or some type of craft shop). It's 100% better now IMO.

[The Reaper]

Reloading tumbler media (crushed walnut shells) will work well and does not weigh too much.

I have seen guys with fixed ranges who did not have to move them much use lead shot filled bags. Guarantee that they will not blow away.

TR

[Buffalobob]

The sling stud on the stock will catch and cause disturbances during recoil. It has to be removed in order for the rifle to recoil the exact same way each time.

As far as rear bags go, there are two uses. For competition where weight is no issue I use a Protektor heavy bottom rabbit ear with heavy sand. Lots of people like the cordura model. For hunting do what Koz said.

http://protektormodel.com/

A shooting sock is what Koz said

http://www.longrangehunting.com/gear...oting-bag.html

[Buffalobob]

Reloading tumbler media (crushed walnut shells) will work well and does not weigh too much.

Plus when it is wet it does NOT weigh more.

[Dusty]

I've always just used an OD sock 3/4 full of rice, tied off, for a shooting sock.

I switched over to long-grain brown rice when I got over 200 lbs, though.

[Dohhunter]

Originally Posted by Dusty

I switched over to long-grain brown rice when I got over 200 lbs, though.

LOL

[MVP]

My shooting socks are pink. They serve to distract the competition out of their "bubble"

[mojaveman]

Originally Posted by Blitzzz

I like the Savage.
Just my Zwei Centavos.

Me too. After owning a Remington 700 for a long time I decided to try a Savage. I think it was something about the name and logo, but anyway, I bought a 10FP and was very impressed with the accuracy. Some folks have reservations with Savage because of the bolt design/construction but they do shoot well. They've come a long way in recent years.

[Ramirez]

Installed the badger knob ( clears the scope much better) and the new AICS has no bottom sling mounts. They are all on the side. Took it to the range yesterday and really like the change. It feeds very well from the AI mags. You can tell why they are the standard. I hope the changes benifit me in my upcoming match.