Precision Rifle

[PSM]

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

What?!?! You've been here "five minutes" and you're already selling real estate?

Just need trigger pullers for back up.

Pat

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by jw74

I searched and was derailed by over an hour of interesting reading on other topics. I'd like to get some educated opinions about the Ruger Scout rifle or scout rifles in general ( like savage. Steyr seems overpriced to me)..
I was considering it as a handy gun for pig hunts. I'm new to it but I've gone several times in the past 6 months, and the manzanita brush is hell on the finish of my sako 270. Also, I like the iron sights. the longest shot I've had would have been in the 250 yd range and I thought the scope on the sako was unneeded.
Are scout rifles trying to be too many things and failing at all of them, or are they useful tools?
Ruger has pics on their sight, but I didn't want to post a link here.

I think you need another thread.

This one is for precision rifles.

TR

[jw74]

Understood

[frostfire]

Gentlemen, I'd like to solicit your input on these 7.62 platforms. I'm on the fence, finding myself in analysis paralysis. Cheap, good, fast. Pick two. Unfortunately that does not help much here. Thus, perhaps an owner's personal account can help. I don't want it to turn to any maker bashing like in other forum. Let me know what has worked for you and that's good enough. Likewise, fire away if my considerations towards to or away from one over the other are just off-base and not factual.

Purpose: Further hone marksmanship edge (Longer distance, higher recoil, higher need for strict adherence to fundamentals). 3-gun when targets are 300m+, Steel Safari, High Power iron and F-class. Pretty much punching paper and metal. No hunting. Probably no two-legged kind either. I don't care for rifle weight. If it's too heavy, I just need to hit the gym more. I like functional accuracy more than benchrest. If I can hold 3/4 to 1 MOA in any position, it's a great day. It's nice to know your weapon system can't be blamed, though.

GAP-10
Boasting 3/4 minute. One user reported 1/4 MOA (no pic). Still waiting for more range reviews to come
Single Stage Match trigger, tuned to 3 1/2 pounds
1-11 5R Bartlein Stainless Match barrel, 5000 barrel life
Standard gas block, performance with suppressor TBD
$2432 with 5% AD discount, Badger Ordnance 1.125 inch scope rings included!
2-4 months ship time!

PredatAR
0.9 to 1 MOA report from manufacturer. As low as 0.6" at 100yards, 1" at 400 yards from one user. Still waiting for more range reviews to come
Two-Stage 4.5lbs Geissele trigger
LW-50 stainless steel, 1/11.25 twist, lightweight-profiled (unfit for suppressor? Groups opens up as pencil barrel heats up? 10,000 rds barrel life
Standard gas block, performance with suppressor TBD
$2370.25 with 5% AD discount
3-4 weeks ship time

OBR
1/2 minute solid documentations from PD and military users.
Two-Stage 4.5 lbs Geissele trigger
LW50 Stainless steel, 1/11.25 twist, 10,000 rds barrel life
Adjustable gas block, works well with suppressor
$2695 with 10% AD discount (I know some of you are getting insane discount, lucky b*******)
3-4 weeks ship time

Llooks like GAP is best value, predatAR is best compromise, and OBR is best performance. OBR requires high cheek/chin weld though ( picture of OBR used in Sniper competition last year shows cloth cheek rest in addition to stock cheek riser) Maybe just nit-picky but my cheek is like a 3rd hand to me. Speaking of nit-picky, Larue has the PRS stock for $242.25, GAP for $210 Hey, that's still a box of match .308

If these are not considered precision rifle, I apologize for hijacking this thread, and I'll start a new one. Thank you for your inputs.

[Dusty]

If we're spending your money, let's go with the OBR.

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

All the chosen rifles above look well to do what you want. Shooting from any position is a great concept, and very practical. the heavier rifle may cause some problems standing off hand when maybe holding on target for extended time.
The two AR frames would allow better all round control. You may look at the Kal-Tec RFB in the Target version claims accuracy out to 1200meters and the carbine to 600 meters.
Bull pup design over all length 40" with a 32" barrel.. Looks really good.

[Buffalobob]

I seriously doubt that the barrel life will be what is claimed with a degree of accuracy needed to be competitive.

My hunting rifles all have the trigger set at 2#. A 3.5-4.5 # trigger for F-class is a poor situation. If mostly you are going to shoot run and gun type matches and only occasional F-class then OK, you know up front you are giving away points with a stiff trigger in F-class matches. I don't shoot run and gun stuff so I know little about the requirements.

I know nothing about the last two, but GA Precision has a big reputation that has not always delivered the agreed upon quality and because so many people have GAP guns a person is a fool to say in public that you don't always get what you pay for so you never read about the poor quality guns that were shipped. I saw a guy DNF over a broken firing pin first time out in what was obviously poor judgement on pin selection by GAP That said, I can truthfully say that there are horror stories for nearly every gunsmith I know. I do not know the current delivery status of any of them but I would not be surprised if it was double what they advertise.

5R barrels are good barrels with a proven track record for accuracy.

Knowing totally nothing about the quality of the other two guns I would prefer to go with GAP as George has a reputation for making things right if there is a problem.

[Peregrino]

frostfire - You're thinking way too hard. The three rifles you've selected are quality pieces – and way more expensive than necessary. That is unless you’re buying them for the name and associated bragging rights. The two rifles pictured are both DPMS .308s. As shown (including optics) either one is approximately the same price as any one of your choices (without optics). Shooting Sierra 175s @ 2600fps they are both .75MOA rifles – the black one with an 8” group at 1000yds, the FDE one at 200yds (have to take it out and zero the new scope at a longer range to find out what it’ll do at 600). You don’t need brand name unobtanium/unaffordium to have an accurate rifle. The price difference is a lot of training ammo. Especially since you'll still have to get optics. MOO, YMMV.

[gits]

Just do yourself a favor and pick up the OBR.

[MVP]

GAP has built one complete gun for me and barreled another action.

The complete rifle was a Sniper Country Limited Edition (SCLE) and it is nothing but top drawer work.

The barrel job went a little different. I asked the scope mount holes be opened for #8 screws while it was there. When I got it back the front two holes were oval/oversized and would barely hold the screws. I could have increased them to #10s but that would have required opening up the holes on the base as well. Ended up soft soldering the base to the receiver the way the Germans do with all scope mounts. Once assembled in a McMillan HTG stock rifle now shoots as well as the SCLE.

MVP

[mark46th]

JW- The 20" barrel should be fine for hunting in your area. I have a PSP with a 24"barrel in .308. I use it to hunt pigs out of King City, just South of you. I have a Weaver 4X on mine that works just fine.

[Ramirez]

Taking my precision rifle to a 1000 yard range today. For me this is a first, I've only found a place to shoot 650 yards prior to this. It's a "range day" for those who have entered a match for the following weekend. Going to test out the new nightforce I picked up. I'll say the picture is clearer and more crisp than the Leupold, but the leupy sure seems easy to use. Point, turn to yardage and fire. The 1MOA per click puts it all in one revolution as well. I'm sure it's just a learning curve, and so far don't regret the upgrade.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Ramirez

Taking my precision rifle to a 1000 yard range today. For me this is a first, I've only found a place to shoot 650 yards prior to this. It's a "range day" for those who have entered a match for the following weekend. Going to test out the new nightforce I picked up. I'll say the picture is clearer and more crisp than the Leupold, but the leupy sure seems easy to use. Point, turn to yardage and fire. The 1MOA per click puts it all in one revolution as well. I'm sure it's just a learning curve, and so far don't regret the upgrade.

Nice shooter, Bro. Looks like a good 1000-yard gun...

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by frostfire

Gentlemen, I'd like to solicit your input on these 7.62 platforms. I'm on the fence, finding myself in analysis paralysis. Cheap, good, fast. Pick two. Unfortunately that does not help much here. Thus, perhaps an owner's personal account can help. I don't want it to turn to any maker bashing like in other forum. Let me know what has worked for you and that's good enough. Likewise, fire away if my considerations towards to or away from one over the other are just off-base and not factual.

Purpose: Further hone marksmanship edge (Longer distance, higher recoil, higher need for strict adherence to fundamentals). 3-gun when targets are 300m+, Steel Safari, High Power iron and F-class. Pretty much punching paper and metal. No hunting. Probably no two-legged kind either. I don't care for rifle weight. If it's too heavy, I just need to hit the gym more. I like functional accuracy more than benchrest. If I can hold 3/4 to 1 MOA in any position, it's a great day. It's nice to know your weapon system can't be blamed, though.

GAP-10
Boasting 3/4 minute. One user reported 1/4 MOA (no pic). Still waiting for more range reviews to come
Single Stage Match trigger, tuned to 3 1/2 pounds
1-11 5R Bartlein Stainless Match barrel, 5000 barrel life
Standard gas block, performance with suppressor TBD
$2432 with 5% AD discount, Badger Ordnance 1.125 inch scope rings included!
2-4 months ship time!

PredatAR
0.9 to 1 MOA report from manufacturer. As low as 0.6" at 100yards, 1" at 400 yards from one user. Still waiting for more range reviews to come
Two-Stage 4.5lbs Geissele trigger
LW-50 stainless steel, 1/11.25 twist, lightweight-profiled (unfit for suppressor? Groups opens up as pencil barrel heats up? 10,000 rds barrel life
Standard gas block, performance with suppressor TBD
$2370.25 with 5% AD discount
3-4 weeks ship time

OBR
1/2 minute solid documentations from PD and military users.
Two-Stage 4.5 lbs Geissele trigger
LW50 Stainless steel, 1/11.25 twist, 10,000 rds barrel life
Adjustable gas block, works well with suppressor
$2695 with 10% AD discount (I know some of you are getting insane discount, lucky b*******)
3-4 weeks ship time

Llooks like GAP is best value, predatAR is best compromise, and OBR is best performance. OBR requires high cheek/chin weld though ( picture of OBR used in Sniper competition last year shows cloth cheek rest in addition to stock cheek riser) Maybe just nit-picky but my cheek is like a 3rd hand to me. Speaking of nit-picky, Larue has the PRS stock for $242.25, GAP for $210 Hey, that's still a box of match .308

If these are not considered precision rifle, I apologize for hijacking this thread, and I'll start a new one. Thank you for your inputs.

FF:

None of the three will be very good at everything you want. Once again you are trying to find one rifle that will be good for everything and you will end up with one rifle that isn't very good for anything.

I would caution you concerning the notion that working out and practice will overcome elemental ergonomic design problems with rifles. It won't so a rifle that is barrel heavy and uses a prone stock isn't going to work for you off hand, kneeling, or seated. Thus, your overall intent of becoming a better marksman will not be fulfilled if you think this way.

Also, the .308 is basically an obsolete cartridge that is holding on only because the military still uses it. Only in competitive events where the rules require a .308 is it competitive. Expensive to load, mediocre accuracy by today's standards, and mostly high recoil all lead to problems if your intent is to become a better marksman.

I would say that even if you handload, you will throw a bit more than $.60 down the barrel each shot with a decent .308 load. If you buy in bulk and get drop shipments from Sierra. If not, look at $.8 per shot. You are better off with a .260 Remington. Half the recoil, 1/4 less cost, same barrel live, superior ballistics capabilities.

My suggestion is that you decide what you want the rifle for. If it is to hone your marksmanship skills, the .308 is not the way to go. If that is your intent, get a very good .223.

If your intent is three gun or High Power, look at 3 Gun and High Power web sites or visit their competitions and see what the winners are using. If your intent is those sniper competitions, see what their winners are using. You will see that they are all using rifles / cartridges / sighting systems that are focused on their specific sport.

So, decide what you want.

Gene

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

Hurt me to the heart. .280 maybe, Just an old 308 guy who has been studying the 6.5s with interest.

"Also, the .308 is basically an obsolete cartridge that is holding on only because the military still uses it. Only in competitive events where the rules require a .308 is it competitive. Expensive to load, mediocre accuracy by today's standards, and mostly high recoil all lead to problems if your intent is to become a better marksman. "

308 isn't likely to be obsolete before the 260 is. Just my opinion not an argument.
as to accuracy in1977 I put 10 rounds 308 in a 14inch group at 1250 meters, at Ft Bragg with my M-21 and 3x9 ART I...I just like 308 even in 30-06.
6.5s are looking pretty good though. Not bad advice for a new shooter.