CrossFit

[Leozinho]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I've been doing Crossfit at a local affiliate for about 8 months now. There have been good times, bad times, vomit and syncope. I have to say that I feel much more fit. With that said, I'm not sure if I feel stronger. It seems like the more Crossfit I do, the better I get at Crossfit. There hasn't been a great transition over into run times or 1RM increases.

This was my experience with XFit as well. I didn't get stronger. I did get better at throwing a medicine ball against the wall, thrusting low weights, etc.

Originally Posted by Quixote

Would I be better served switching to a Starting Strength/Stronglifts 5x5 workout with bodyweight calisthenics (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, and such), running, and rucking mixed in on the off days? The randomization inherent in Crossfit programming seems to be stopping me from building up a solid base of strength.

What are your 1RMs in the big lifts now and what sort of goal and timeline do you have? (Someone headed to Basic in two months might need a different program than someone looking for general fitness, or someone shipping out in a year, etc.)

I've always felt Xfit was better for the already strong, and not so good for skinny guys trying to get bigger and stronger. Doing a few months of a 5x5 program is a pretty common recommendation. After you stop making the easy gains on a linear progression program, you could transition to a strength biased hybrid program. CF Football, Grant Hybrid, and Black Box all have more strength focus than the main page.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I've been doing Crossfit at a local affiliate for about 8 months now. ...I have to say that I feel much more fit. With that said, I'm not sure if I feel stronger...

My eventual goal is to transition to Military Athlete operator sessions...

...Would I be better served switching to a Starting Strength/Stronglifts 5x5 workout with bodyweight calisthenics (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, and such), running, and rucking mixed in on the off days? The randomization inherent in Crossfit programming seems to be stopping me from building up a solid base of strength.

Like others have stated here and elsewhere x-fit isn't going to make you strong (relative) but it will make you more fit, if general fitness is your goal. If your goal is combat fitness you need to look elsewhere or use x-fit for met-con and use a strength program to get/stay strong.

As for MA, I know guys who have started the Op Sessions who didn't score 100 on Op Ugly who progressed just fine and have also known guys who couldn't take it. What does your 1RM's look like? How is your conditioning with X-fit?

My advice to you is print off the free sessions and give them a shot. If you can complete the workouts as designed to the time standard then have at it...if not or if your 1RM's are weak (relative to your size/weight) you may be better served starting a 5x5 cycle until such a time that you can...

Crip

[BigJimCalhoun]

Originally Posted by furry

I visited the MountainAthlete affiliate in Boulder a few times last summer at the urging of a few friends who are professional climbers in the area. (I climb at a relatively high level, though not getting paid for it.) It was their first experience with a more wholistic conditioning program so they were excited about it.

I, however, was less-than-impressed. I've been oly lifting since high school and incorporated Crossfit style training about 4 years ago. The lady running the place seemed to have little knowledge of biomechanics, training philosophy, and the movements. She has since separated from MA and calls her place "The Alpine Training Center," so perhaps her lack of personal knowledge is not reflective on HQ, although they did 'sanction' her.

The programming did come straight from HQ, and I was also unimpressed. Workouts were typically an hour-long slog session at around %80 intensity. I think the value of CF/CFE is the high intensity, shorter duration met-con training combined with those all-important strength days as noted above. Slugging it out for an hour felt far less productive than a strength session and/or an anerobic metcon at full tilt.

Oh, and I don't care how fit you are, you can't sprint for an hour, so don't tell me you just need to "build up to handle that much volume."

Thank you for providing that input. Boulder is too far North for me and I avoid that area for a number of reasons. I considered doing a one day workout there but then saw it was not on the M.A. site anymore.

[Quixote]

I just got back from the gym, testing out my major lifts. I was a little shocked, and not in a good way. Up until now I've been out of balance, with my lower body significantly stronger than my upper body. No longer, it seems. I didn't do 1rm, but did a few warmup sets then went for a 5RM and plugged the numbers into a calculator. Here's what it said.

Back Squat - 210 1RM
Bench Press - 210 1RM
Dead lift - 315 1RM
Power Clean - 165 1RM

This is at a bodyweight of 205. It's a little disturbing. It might be that I'm out of practice with the Back Squat (my Front Squat's currently equal to it).

As far as conditioning, I've got a fair base of metcon now. Last serious metcon WOD we did was Kelly, which I finished in a bit under 25 minutes, if I'm remembering right.

I've got 4 1/2 months before I ship out to basic. Here are the fitness benchmarks I would like to be at before I go, if you guys could let me know if this is feasible or if I should specialize into a different area, I would really appreciate it.

1.3x BP
1.5x BS
2x DL
10 mile run (currently at 4 miles)
<13:00 2 mile run (currently at just under 15:00)
80+ Pushups in 2 minutes (currently at ~60)
80+ Situps in 2 minutes (currently at ~70)
16 mile ruck w/55lb in under 3h40m (currently at 5 miles in 64:30 w/45lb)

It seems like I can't fit everything into a week, and it makes me really worry about compromising progress by not giving my body time to recover. Especially since I'm currently still in a calorie deficit (at ~17% bodyfat, trying to get under 14% to help with run times and bodyweight movements).

Thanks again everybody for taking the time to help with your advice.

[BrianH]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I just got back from the gym, testing out my major lifts. I was a little shocked, and not in a good way. Up until now I've been out of balance, with my lower body significantly stronger than my upper body. No longer, it seems. I didn't do 1rm, but did a few warmup sets then went for a 5RM and plugged the numbers into a calculator. Here's what it said.

Back Squat - 210 1RM
Bench Press - 210 1RM
Dead lift - 315 1RM
Power Clean - 165 1RM

This is at a bodyweight of 205. It's a little disturbing. It might be that I'm out of practice with the Back Squat (my Front Squat's currently equal to it).

That's pretty weak. 210 1RM back squat? It's been a LONG time since my 1RM back squat was under 335, and I am your weight.

You've got a ways to go. At your weight you should be squatting at LEAST 315 as a starting point and dead lifting in the 405 area. That's not "strong", but it is a base at least.

[99meters]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

If your goal is combat fitness you need to look elsewhere...

Specificity is The single most important concept in training.
What is specificity for the soldier?

[furry]

Originally Posted by BigJimCalhoun

Thank you for providing that input. Boulder is too far North for me and I avoid that area for a number of reasons. I considered doing a one day workout there but then saw it was not on the M.A. site anymore.

Well, for me there are a number of reasons I love this area, such as Eldorado Canyon, Boulder Canyon, RMNP, etc...

As for gyms, if you're interested, I've been training with Triyoga Endurance in south Golden the last few months. They seem to have a good idea of what's up: the owner and his other trainer are former 75th guys, and while they appreciate the effectiveness of Crossfit's certain methodologies, they aren't Kool-Aid drinkers either.

And yes, Quixote, at that BW your numbers are very low. IMO check out doing a cycle of CF Football or Performance Menu to get your basic strength to a point where it needs to be.

[CDG]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I just got back from the gym, testing out my major lifts. I was a little shocked, and not in a good way. Up until now I've been out of balance, with my lower body significantly stronger than my upper body. No longer, it seems. I didn't do 1rm, but did a few warmup sets then went for a 5RM and plugged the numbers into a calculator. Here's what it said.

Back Squat - 210 1RM
Bench Press - 210 1RM
Dead lift - 315 1RM
Power Clean - 165 1RM

This is at a bodyweight of 205. It's a little disturbing. It might be that I'm out of practice with the Back Squat (my Front Squat's currently equal to it).

As far as conditioning, I've got a fair base of metcon now. Last serious metcon WOD we did was Kelly, which I finished in a bit under 25 minutes, if I'm remembering right.

I've got 4 1/2 months before I ship out to basic. Here are the fitness benchmarks I would like to be at before I go, if you guys could let me know if this is feasible or if I should specialize into a different area, I would really appreciate it.

1.3x BP
1.5x BS
2x DL
10 mile run (currently at 4 miles)
<13:00 2 mile run (currently at just under 15:00)
80+ Pushups in 2 minutes (currently at ~60)
80+ Situps in 2 minutes (currently at ~70)
16 mile ruck w/55lb in under 3h40m (currently at 5 miles in 64:30 w/45lb)

It seems like I can't fit everything into a week, and it makes me really worry about compromising progress by not giving my body time to recover. Especially since I'm currently still in a calorie deficit (at ~17% bodyfat, trying to get under 14% to help with run times and bodyweight movements).

Thanks again everybody for taking the time to help with your advice.

You are going to have to figure out what you really want to improve and go from there. It will be way too much volume for you to try and significantly increase your strength while also trying to hit run/ruck goals. Don't try to do both or you will just end up frustrated and likely overtrained/injured. Being stronger will benefit everything else you want to do, so I would focus on that. Start following the CrossFit Football Amateur level strength programming, along with their met-cons. It's a fantastic program and I saw huge gains in my strength from it. Once you have surpassed your strength goals by 20-30#, stop and start focusing on your running/rucking more. Your lifts will lose some poundage, which is the reason for exceeding your current goals by a bit. But you will still settle in at a much higher strength level than you are at now.

[bk4242]

Although I visit this site to do more reading rather than writing, I can add something that has worked for me in the past to get through weight lifting plateus in between fb seasons. When I got stuck at something like 350 benchpress or 405 squat, I would switch to a pyramid rep program. Usually I would do something like 10,8,5,3,3,2,5,10. This allowed me to gain strength on my 1rm's and keep a bit of muscle endurance. It also allowed the body to warm up some more before loading up the bar. But like everything else, what may work for one person may not work for another.

BK

[KiloNovember]

I've been fiddling with Crossfit for awhile, and got serious about it over the summer. I am in much better shape now because of it, but following the programming on the mainsite doesn't provide enough running or, in my opinion, strength in areas like chest or shoulders. I've had to supplement, and throw in a lot of the bodyweight metcons along with strength programming and running.

That being said, I just came across www.sealfit.com, which seems to incorporate crossfit-type metcons with programmed strength, more running and endurance work. Anyone else have any experience with it? I just ran the workout for today this morning, and it was a kick in the teeth (in a good way, of course).

[conrad30]

I have been doing crossfit for about 4 months now and my experience has been phenominal. The gym that I attend is run by a USMC Scout/ Sniper who picked up a lot of his training ingenuity while trying to stay in shape in Fallujah.
When I started out I was definitely overweight and have dropped about 25 pounds over the course of 4 months without major diet alterations AND my stength, stamina and explosiveness have gone through the roof. Since the workouts are designed to be short and intense, we do not do a lot of running >1000 meter intervals but are encouraged to run on our own time in what are called the "Endurance WODs." I am a former D1 football player so I had a decent strength background to begin with. Several years of focussing more on strength than conditioning (because it comes easier to me) left me strong but in poor condition.
The best aspect of crossfit (other than the conditioning) is that you are forced to learn exercises that are extremely difficult like overhead squats, snatches, cleans, handstand pushups etc that have great carryover to practical force application and your body's ability to do work.

[Clay]

I've been looking into xfit for about 2 weeks now, and my only question is that, in a combat and/or military setting, are you more likely to use the overall fitness of xfit and workouts of its nature, or would being a major league lifter be more useful. I know for me, at 6'2" 168ish combined with what would be genetics I guess, (all males in my family are tall and rail thin), I have a better chance of using xfit and maximizing my fitness than being "optimus prime" and benching 538 lbs. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just don't see it for my body type.

[hotshot]

Originally Posted by Clay

I've been looking into xfit for about 2 weeks now, and my only question is that, in a combat and/or military setting, are you more likely to use the overall fitness of xfit and workouts of its nature, or would being a major league lifter be more useful. I know for me, at 6'2" 168ish combined with what would be genetics I guess, (all males in my family are tall and rail thin), I have a better chance of using xfit and maximizing my fitness than being "optimus prime" and benching 538 lbs. There's nothing wrong with that, but I just don't see it for my body type.

What do you think? How will being able to bench press 538lbs help you carry 100+lbs of equipment through the mountains of Afghanistan? What makes you think that you can't become powerful doing crossfit? You need to learn how to apply the common sense test.

Read more. When your eyes get tired, go do the WOD, and come back and read.

CH

[Calvengeance]

Originally Posted by KiloNovember

I've been fiddling with Crossfit for awhile, and got serious about it over the summer. I am in much better shape now because of it, but following the programming on the mainsite doesn't provide enough running or, in my opinion, strength in areas like chest or shoulders. I've had to supplement, and throw in a lot of the bodyweight metcons along with strength programming and running.

That being said, I just came across www.sealfit.com, which seems to incorporate crossfit-type metcons with programmed strength, more running and endurance work. Anyone else have any experience with it? I just ran the workout for today this morning, and it was a kick in the teeth (in a good way, of course).

KiloNovember, any more thoughts on SealFit? I've just started to do it. How has it affected you?

Thanks.

[Triângulo]

There's also Crossfit Strength Bias, if you're looking to improve your overall strength, especially with the "slow lifts".... Basically heavy lifts (squat/press,dead/front squat), then followed by a metcon using that same lift but at a lighter weight for higher reps.

The "time" scheme is 2 days on, 1 off, 3 on, 1 off. Day 3 is supposed to be a "Long Metcon" I usually hit a long run, row, or ruck.

The article on it provides a simple template for you and "build" your own metcons throughout.... If anyones interested I can post or email the article to them