12-18-2009, 19:13
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#31
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Clay House Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 2,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armymom1228
So what did you guys do before then, to 'get selected' and what was the 'selection'?
AM
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Before SFAS was enacted SF candidates went through three weeks of "pre-phase" training. Maybe it wasn't as intense as SFAS but I still saw a number of people quit. I also saw a lot of people quit or fail during the SFQC, especially during the land navigation portion of Phase I. After completing the SFQC I can remember some of the younger guys that I went through with getting kicked off of teams or thrown out of Group for doing stupid things. It could be that "selection" in Special Forces continues until the day that you retire.
Last edited by mojaveman; 12-18-2009 at 20:46.
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mojaveman is offline
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12-18-2009, 19:19
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#32
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armymom1228
So what did you guys do before then, to 'get selected' and what was the 'selection'?
AM
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They washed somewhere around 50% of the class out during pre-Phase, as noted, and then my class lost another 50% of the remainder at Phase I. Some more were lost during Phase II, though most were recycled, and a few were busted in Phase III.
I believe that my class had around a 20% graduation rate.
The real issue was that people would apply for SF and PCS to the SFQC, then fail the PT test on Day 1. Then they were assigned to any available MOS and rank position on Bragg. An unsurprising number of people used that technique to get out of unpleasant and overseas assignments and get back to Bragg. Some more than once.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-18-2009, 22:34
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#33
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Near the flag pole
Posts: 1,168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
They washed somewhere around 50% of the class out during pre-Phase, as noted, and then my class lost another 50% of the remainder at Phase I. Some more were lost during Phase II, though most were recycled, and a few were busted in Phase III.
TR
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So let me do the math on this one,,,,
100% - 50% during pre-Phase = 50%. Then you lost another 50% in Phase 1, = 0%, then you lost more in Phase III,,,,?
I'll just stop asking questions now,,,,,,
 :
__________________
"It's not my aim, it's these damn crooked bullets,,,"
Verified Tax Payer and Future Sex Symbol
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blue02hd is offline
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12-18-2009, 22:40
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#34
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue02hd
So let me do the math on this one,,,,
100% - 50% during pre-Phase = 50%. Then you lost another 50% in Phase 1, = 0%, then you lost more in Phase III,,,,?
I'll just stop asking questions now,,,,,,
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You were not the math whiz in school, were you?
100-50%=50.
50-50%=25.
25-20%=20.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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12-18-2009, 22:49
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#35
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SF Candidate
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: tristate area
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KW9598
I bet a lot will agree...Im not sure how advantageous it is to reveal things like SFAS...even edited. Whats the purpose....recruitment? I remembering talking to Discovery producer Gordon Forbes during shooting of the 3 night, 10 hour SEAL special about differences in USSF and SEALs...he never did get it. Some people think only one way...entertainment first.
90% of the anxiety, fear, and despair while going into things like BUDs, SFAS, is not knowing whats going to happen. Was for me at least.
Nice to know these days all you have to do is pop on the tube before your trip to Bragg and get a good idea for what awaits you.
Discovery Channel will benefit from this, but how does the Regiment?
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I would bet the house that this has something to do with bringing in more guys.
Last edited by deepblack 18x; 12-18-2009 at 22:49.
Reason: typo
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deepblack 18x is offline
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12-18-2009, 22:57
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#36
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reaper
You were not the math whiz in school, were you?
100-50%=50.
50-50%=25.
25-20%=20.
TR
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Thanks TR, I realize that what you went through and the current SFAS are probably quite different. I am sure each, in its own way, was 'difficult'.
If you had to do it all over again, and, could chose. Which of the two would
you pick?
AM, who is eternally curious.
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12-18-2009, 23:19
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#37
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,097
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Looks like SFAS has changed to a more PRC or Ranger School approach. I went to SFAS prior to 9-11 and I don't remember anyone yelling (except for the primary instructor on the bull horn) at all to include during log and rifle PT. I was expecting SFAS to be like PRC and Ranger School with the smoke sessions. I definately liked the more relax mode of SFAS but it still was a gut check course.
Phase II was like a mini Ranger School with the smoke sessions. RIP SFC Tessar (CTS).
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18C4V is offline
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12-19-2009, 08:11
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#38
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Quiet Professional (RIP)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Carriere,Ms.
Posts: 6,922
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AM,
Not speaking for TR,but after reading get "Selected" the old way wasn't easy but not as it is now................... 
Big Teddy 
__________________
I believe that SF is a 'calling' - not too different from the calling missionaries I know received. I knew instantly that it was for me, and that I would do all I could to achieve it. Most others I know in SF experienced something similar. If, as you say, you HAVE searched and read, and you do not KNOW if this is the path for you --- it is not....
Zonie Diver
SF is a calling and it requires commitment and dedication that the uninitiated will never understand......
Jack Moroney
SFA M-2527, Chapter XXXVII
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greenberetTFS is offline
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12-19-2009, 08:22
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#39
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NorCal
Posts: 15,370
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Don't know how tough the old courses were compared to today - but as a Medic and looking at the start-drop-add-drop-add-drop-add-drop-add-drop-add-drop rate of all phases of our training - our class graduated 12 medics of nearly 200 program entrants (a few of which were recycled into another MOS).
And so it...went...
Richard's $.02
__________________
“Sometimes the Bible in the hand of one man is worse than a whisky bottle in the hand of (another)… There are just some kind of men who – who’re so busy worrying about the next world they’ve never learned to live in this one, and you can look down the street and see the results.” - To Kill A Mockingbird (Atticus Finch)
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” - Robert Heinlein
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Richard is offline
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12-19-2009, 09:19
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#40
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenberetTFS
AM,
Not speaking for TR,but after reading get "Selected" the old way wasn't easy but not as it is now...................
Big Teddy |
Nothing with you guys is ever 'easy'.
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12-19-2009, 09:21
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#41
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NC for now
Posts: 2,418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Don't know how tough the old courses were compared to today - but as a Medic and looking at the start-drop-add-drop-add-drop-add-drop-add-drop-add-drop rate of all phases of our training - our class graduated 12 medics of nearly 200 program entrants (a few of which were recycled into another MOS).
And so it...went...
Richard's $.02 |
One thing they didn't do when I went thru the old course. Was give Students more then one recycle. You were given one chance at a recycle. Failed any other portion of the course and you were gone.
__________________
Sounds like a s#*t sandwhich, but I'll fight anyone, I'm in.
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kgoerz is offline
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12-19-2009, 10:32
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#42
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: OK. Thanking Our Brave Soldiers
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armymom1228
Nothing with you guys is ever 'easy'. |
And that's why we luv 'em!!!
Just set my TV to record the documentary! 
Holly
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echoes is offline
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12-19-2009, 15:17
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#43
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Murrieta, CA
Posts: 316
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Thanks for the heads up on this documentary. It will have to be better than the 4 minutes I just watched on Spike TV of, "SPECIAL FORCES" (it was a bad collection of SWAT videos but the Host called them Special Forces instead of SWAT).
It doesn't take much effort in research to find the appropriate use of the title Special Forces and yet...
Soon there will be Food Network Special Forces: A cadre of top chefs using rail spatulas with surefire lights.
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jw74 is offline
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12-19-2009, 15:43
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#45
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: OK. Thanking Our Brave Soldiers
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jw74
Soon there will be Food Network Special Forces: A cadre of top chefs using rail spatulas with surefire lights.
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Excuse me for stepping out of my lane, but WTF are you talking about sir?
I find you grandious patheitc argument that SF, when/if Documented properly, is somehow akin to the assanine reality televison shows in production today, rediculous!
Just my .02 civilian opinion! You need to step off of that one, sir, as SF Men were, are, and are always going to be heroes!
Holly
Holly,
Although we certainly appreciate the strength of your support and feelings about SF - I think you misread jw74's post here - I read it as him just being sarcastic about the idea that it seems as if everyone wants to use the SF title nowadays for nearly anything.
Richard
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