Whitehouse.gov already calling for gun ban

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Distorted

.."I need cop-killer bullets on the off chance that I need to kill a cop to protect my basic civil liberties".....

...Interesting to see some of the attitudes expressed by posters here, especially given that throughout the world, 'special services' units of the military are typically the ones tasked with the egregious violation of civil liberties, first against the foreign enemy, then against his 'domestic supporters'.......

Could you define a "Cop Killer" bullet? Can you name the types of ammunition that would be banned if a "Cop Killer Bullet" law was passed?

Your second section above is - lets just say interesting.

[Soft Target]

Special Services?

I know most of the guys on this site are Special Forces qualified.

I'll wager that there are damn few that are "Special Services" qualified; I may be the only one. What a distinction!

Oh, just showing I know the difference.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by distorted

Just making sure I have this right...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To summarize the argument of the defenders of the people's right (and some would say responsibility) to rebel: "I need cop-killer bullets on the off chance that I need to kill a cop to protect my basic civil liberties".

To summarize the counter-argument of the anti-gunners: "You don't need to worry about such things, officer friendly is at your service, ready to protect you from all enemies foreign and domestic"

This debate is less about guns, and more about the status of the individual as moral authority--do you decide what's right and wrong, or does it come from outside of you, perhaps from the electorate, a book, or some other source?

Interesting to see some of the attitudes expressed by posters here, especially given that throughout the world, 'special services' units of the military are typically the ones tasked with the egregious violation of civil liberties, first against the foreign enemy, then against his 'domestic supporters'...but I'm sure that could never happen here, the USG and most definitely not the fine upstanding men of the special services would never grab an innocent person in the middle of the night, beat the crap out of them, and drag them to a secret prison to be held incommunicado for an indeterminate amount of time.

Edit: for 'cop-killer bullets' I am using the operational definition of 'bullets capable of penetrating standard police-issue body armor'. Here is an article on the term and its origins: link The 5.7mm armor-piercing bullet favored by cartel assasins in Mexico probably qualifies under this term. The .308 'black tip' if indeed able to penetrate military armor would be a 'soldier-killer' bullet. Those advocating for the right to rebel and the disorganized militia would support the widespread proliferation of this bullet, to defend against the possibility of military occupation of the United States correct? Additionally, what about private ownership of SA-2s or Stingers, just in case the occupiers decide to turn the horror of air power against the American people?

distorted:

Your name defines your knowledge of firearms and ammunition.

This is the second post in the past 24 hours where you have showed your ignorance, and pretty much parrotted anti-gun and anti-2nd Amendment propoganda. Your insinuation that SOF might be involved is equally out of place.

I recommend that you read all of the 2nd Amendment arguments here and educate yourself before posting again on this topic.

The next post of this nature will relieve you of any further posting burdens on this board.

Move out and draw fire.

TR

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

Just a Note: All those other "special Service" troops you mention have not Sworn to Uphold and defend a Constitution. And we all Have not forgotten that Oath. Blitzzz

[Team Sergeant]

distorted,

I'm not near as nice as The Reaper, you are done posting for the next six months. (Check out your title, you post before that and you're gone.)

Consider yourself in a read only status.

Team Sergeant

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I say in the first 100 days.

The big miscalculation is that the margins in some states were significant enough that a 90% flip by angry gun owners could turn the color of the state. That could reverse the coattails that carried a lot of the Dims in close races.

NC, FL, PA, and OH have a LOT of gun owners and hunters, some of who voted for change, and hopefully, they will remember come election time.

TR

It appears that the TR may not be far off in is 100 day prediction. According to ABC News - In the 'guise' of assisting Mexico, Holder is already pimping re-instating the Assault Weapons Ban.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1

[Pete]

"Some recent Mexican army and police confrontations with drug cartels have resembled small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and grenades," the warning said. "Large firefights have taken place in many towns and cities across Mexico, but most recently in northern Mexico, including Tijuana, Chihuahua City and Ciudad Juarez."

I don't see anything in that statement that applies to semi automatic rifles which is what the "Assault Weapon" ban is after.

Libs have to lie - telling the truth shows them for what they are.

[Burns76]

The Obama Administration is just using this as the FIRST "reason" for the new assault weapons ban. There will be more. Although, none will be honest reasons just playing to peoples perceived fears. We need a new Assault Weapons Ban for _______.

select "reason" below.

a) Mexico to quell the out of control drug cartel violence and corruption
b) the stock market to return to it's 14,000 point glory
c) to balance the budget
d) to keep 8 million Americans from foreclosing on their McMansions
e) for the children
f) All of the above

These clowns will roll out what ever argument they think the naive will buy into and can repeat without much effort or thought.

Gentlemen, I hear cash registers at gun shops ringing louder in the coming months.

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by Pete

"Some recent Mexican army and police confrontations with drug cartels have resembled small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and grenades," the warning said. "Large firefights have taken place in many towns and cities across Mexico, but most recently in northern Mexico, including Tijuana, Chihuahua City and Ciudad Juarez."

I don't see anything in that statement that applies to semi automatic rifles which is what the "Assault Weapon" ban is after.

Libs have to lie - telling the truth shows them for what they are.

That's exactly what I told my wife last night. Personally I view the violence in Mexico as a reason to own an Assault rifle not a reason to ban them. If I were in Arizona I would insist on getting an assault rifle if I didn't already have one.

What's funny to me is I looked up the crime statistics related to assault weapons a week or two ago, anyone want to guess how often an assault weapon is used in a crime.......it was .9 percent of all gun crimes......wow we definitely need to address that I know in the years while I was a LEO there were 2....yea that's it, 2 total incidents involving assault rifles, one was a legitimately crazy guy sitting in his garage with the door closed firing rounds off, (got his neighbors attention and of course ours ) The second was a simple video we got a hold of that showed a bunch of known gangbangers holding an SKS, there were 12-13 in the video who all had the rifle at different points, IIRC every one of them was a convicted felon or was holding the gun and some illegal substance, took less than 3 weeks before we had rolled up all but 1 or 2 of them.

[Razor]

Let's use precise terms precisely. Was that SKS capable of fully automatic fire? Unless it was a really neat variant of the standard model, it was a battle rifle, not an assault rifle. We have to resist the temptation to become lazy and let "scare-speak" slip into our common vocabulary.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Razor

Let's use precise terms precisely. Was that SKS capable of fully automatic fire? Unless it was a really neat variant of the standard model, it was a battle rifle, not an assault rifle. We have to resist the temptation to become lazy and let "scare-speak" slip into our common vocabulary.

Minor point, a Sturmgewehr (or battle rifle) uses a full power rifle cartridge, like the .30-06, 7.62 NATO, 8x57 Mauser, 7.62x54R, etc. The SKS uses an intermediate round, the 7.62x39.

The SKS is technically, merely a semi-automatic rifle, and is not that dfifferent from Bubba's Remington 760 or Browning.

TR

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by Razor

Let's use precise terms precisely. Was that SKS capable of fully automatic fire? Unless it was a really neat variant of the standard model, it was a battle rifle, not an assault rifle. We have to resist the temptation to become lazy and let "scare-speak" slip into our common vocabulary.

My apologies Razor, it was not fully automatic, and while I would agree with you that an SKS it actually a battle rifle, I refer to it as an assault rifle because in the context of FBI gun statistics it would be considered one, also because the Dims/left are going to try ban them as such as their definition of an assault rifle was in 94,

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following: Folding stock, pistol grip, Bayonet mount, Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one, Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades)

And is now as of their 07 attempt for an assault weapons ban,

L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General.

I don’t in any way agree with that definition, but the Dims are saying that these weapons are killing babies and destroying civilization and as such I can and will refute their assertions with the truth backed by my personal experiences. In reality these weapons are rarely used illegally, it does happen but as a very tiny fraction of overall gun crime. I would further suggest if no one had access to these weapons the crimes that were committed still would have been just with another gun.

Just my .02

[Razor]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Minor point, a Sturmgewehr (or battle rifle) uses a full power rifle cartridge, like the .30-06, 7.62 NATO, 8x57 Mauser, 7.62x54R, etc. The SKS uses an intermediate round, the 7.62x39.

The SKS is technically, merely a semi-automatic rifle, and is not that dfifferent from Bubba's Remington 760 or Browning.

TR

Good point--I sit corrected. What would be the correct term for a semi-auto capable rifle firing 5.56, 7.62x39. 5.45, etc. (besides 'varmint gun' )?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Razor

Good point--I sit corrected. What would be the correct term for a semi-auto capable rifle firing 5.56, 7.62x39. 5.45, etc. (besides 'varmint gun' )?

IMHO, a semi-automatic or self-loading rifle in an intermediate military caliber.

Or, soon the be the favored weapon of a well-armed, newly-established criminal class.

When they go to make the example of the first person who does not want to give them up, I hope he makes a good stand.

TR

[JihadJilson]

Since I wasn't exactly clear on what the "LoopHole" on the "Closing the Gun-show Loophole" was I started researching what the real issue was. I found this bit of info while doing so. Granted it is from Wikipedia and no I don't believe everything posted on Wiki, it did come with a reference index, unfortunately when I went to that it required an account to log into. Anyway this is what is posted.

"A 1997 Department of Justice survey of 3,959 prison inmates found that only 2% stated that they had bought a gun used in a crime from a gun show.[10] The remaining 98% were obtained from other sources, in which the criminal had no direct connection with a gun show."

[10] http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/cgi-bin/S...cjd+02598-0001