Pro-Hamas Demonstration in Florida

[nmap]

Originally Posted by olhamada

Whoever said this wasn't a religious war was an idiot. It is all about worldviews and religious zealotry.

I wonder...is it? Or could it be population pressure, perhaps exacerbated by religious issues?

Take a look HERE, where the following data is available:

Population: 1,500,202 (July 2008 est.)
Age structure:
0-14 years: 44.7% (male 343,988/female 325,856)
15-64 years: 52.7% (male 403,855/female 386,681)
65 years and over: 2.7% (male 16,196/female 23,626) (2008 est.)

Median age:
total: 17.2 years
male: 17 years
female: 17.4 years (2008 est.)

Population growth rate:
3.422% (2008 est.)

This is a density of about 4,167 per KM^2. Compare with NY City, with a population density of 10,482 per KM^2 (LINK) Compare Tokyo at 4,750 per KM^2 (LINK)

Add in the young age of the population, the growth, and the poverty - then stir in religious differences - and conflict seems a foregone conclusion.

Want something scary? Crank the population growth rate into a spreadsheet. In a little more than 25 years, the population will double. So to improve their lot, they most increase GDP by some factor plus the growth rate.

I suspect the only solution for areas with the demographic profile above involves substantial and immediate reductions in the existing population, the growth rate, or both. Since that will not happen, the future becomes predictable. Not pleasant; just predictable.

[jatx]

Originally Posted by nmap

Want something scary? Crank the population growth rate into a spreadsheet. In a little more than 25 years, the population will double. So to improve their lot, they most increase GDP by some factor plus the growth rate.

It gets worse. The birth rate of Israeli Jews is barely above the replacement rate. I.e., each Jewish couple in Israel (of which there are fewer and fewer) has, on average, only 2-3 children. The number of Muslim Israeli citizens is approx. 1.7 million, and each Muslim couple averages 4-5 children.

It doesn't take a very big speadsheet to see where this is going. Israel as we know it will cease to exist within 50 years - not because of the rocket attacks, but because Israeli Jews are not breeding very prolifically.

When it gets to that point, I think that America should extend an invitation to every single Israeli Jew to come join us here. They are a great people and would be a great asset to our country.

[Red Flag 1]

"The Palestinians are an oppressed people group. We owe them the same humanitarian treatment we expect for ourselves and others."

I need some help here. Who is oppessing the Palestinians? Is it that Arafat is dead, and the PLO is not as strong? Is the PLO the oppressor? Is Hamas the oppressor? Is Isreal the oppressor?

In terms of" liberation", what form would be best? Do we send the Palestininas food, medical aide,or infrastrusture support? Perhaps money for whatever they want would help? For sure more arms, ammo, armor, upgraded missle systems, training in conventional and unconventional warfare would help...just for defense you understand, don't you?

Should you need some expert international advice, expert political advice, and a view that does not include the interests of the USA, well..... I suggest you look to the POTUS after Ford.

My $.02.


RF 1

[nmap]

Originally Posted by jatx

It gets worse. The birth rate of Israeli Jews is barely above the replacement rate. I.e., each Jewish couple in Israel (of which there are fewer and fewer) has, on average, only 2-3 children. The number of Muslim Israeli citizens is approx. 1.7 million, and each Muslim couple averages 4-5 children.

Demographics is destiny.

Originally Posted by Red Flag 1

RF 1

And a Happy New Year to you both, Jatx and Red Flag!

[jwt5]

and then people wonder why I am moving to Texas......


TS, I'll supply not only the coordinates, I'll even be "eyes on the ground" for future strikes... for a few months

[The antihero]

The demographics issue is, I believe, not only the most severe problem but also the main reason why the Palestinians and the Arab world in general, as well as all Israel-haters worldwide, are getting more and more rigid and unreasonable about Israel. They now think they will win in the long term anyway, that time is on their side, so why compromise or make concessions?

Must be a reason why Ahmadinejad always refers to Israel as "a corpse" and the like.

Couple that with the lessening support Israel receives from the so-called "international public opinion" and they can get even bolder. People like Abu Mazen or the leaders of Hamas, or even foreign ideological jackals like the Iranians or the Muslim Brotherhood, don't care how many Palestinians will die or live miserable lives before the "inevitable triumph" as long as THEY benefit from the struggle.

[incarcerated]

Originally Posted by Sigaba

What I don't understand and don't appreciate is how the American MSM prominently displays images of the consequences of Israeli attacks on Hamas-held positions. For example, the front page of today's Los Angeles Times features a photograph of a crowd of Palestinians carrying a body.

If I am not mistaken, the Palestinian leadership is paid (alright, ‘funded’) per capita by the U.N., and consequently, the Palestinian masses are not permitted to leave, and are encouraged to breed. Demographics and immigration (often supported by welfare) are weapons of the Palestinians, Islam in general, and Mexican Nationalism:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760

I’m sorry, did I say “weapon”? I meant, “as a tool to further their interests.”

[olhamada]

Originally Posted by The antihero

The demographics issue is, I believe, not only the most severe problem but also the main reason why the Palestinians and the Arab world in general, as well as all Israel-haters worldwide, are getting more and more rigid and unreasonable about Israel. They now think they will win in the long term anyway, that time is on their side, so why compromise or make concessions?

Must be a reason why Ahmadinejad always refers to Israel as "a corpse" and the like.

Couple that with the lessening support Israel receives from the so-called "international public opinion" and they can get even bolder. People like Abu Mazen or the leaders of Hamas, or even foreign ideological jackals like the Iranians or the Muslim Brotherhood, don't care how many Palestinians will die or live miserable lives before the "inevitable triumph" as long as THEY benefit from the struggle.

I think you are correct. In addition, they smell "blood in the water" because of Israel's own internal strife and are salivating at the thought of a feeding frenzy.

With regard to birth rates, it's not just Palestinians - it's the entire Muslim population. England and Belgium have already been essentially taken over by Islamic influences and it's only a matter of time. German reproduction is at a low point while Turkish immigrants are reproducing at 2 or 3 times the rate. In 50 years Germany could potentially have a serious Islamic problem. France and Spain could easily follow. In fact, it wasn't too long ago (600 years) that most of Spain was ruled by the Muslim Caliphate.

[olhamada]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

If Gaza is any example of how the Palestinians behave when given land and an opportunity, I would not look forward to a lot more concessions by Israel.

Hamas terrorists, suicide bombers, and rocket rocket attacks on civilian areas are not things we normally desire in our neighbors.

Why is Israel not considered equally worthy of being freed from oppression? They would seem to be surrounded by hostile forces who seek their destruction. At the same time, they have managed, through their own hard work, to thrive in a desert area which was largely undeveloped prior to their arrival.

The former terrorists in the Israeli government are now very old and have largely died off.

TR

I completely agree. Unfortunately, the "democratically elected" Hamas doesn't represent the average Palestinian, but feeds on its own thirst for power and revenge. If I place myself in their shoes, I can understand their need for revenge, but as they say, "If you seek revenge, dig two graves". The average Palestinian (and Israeli) wants peace. They want to raise their children in safety. They want to have shelter, food, and clothing. They want an education. But the leaders of Hamas are willing to sacrifice all this for their thirst for blood while their leader hides like a coward in Damascus.

I dealt with bitterness for a long time. But after watching the Amish after the schoolhouse massacre in PA a couple of years ago, and after hearing Auschwitz survivors talk about forgiveness, I began to see that the only one bitterness hurts is oneself and one's family. The only way to achieve true peace is through forgiveness. As a Christian, I knew this, but it was a very difficult obstacle to overcome. In fact, it's an obstacle that recurs and is one that you end up fighting on a daily basis. It's more than a feeling - it's a choice.

Without this there is no hope. Killing will continue. Hate will grow. No one will have peace and safety. This problem affects more than a small strip of land on the Mediterranean. It affects the whole world, and has for 70 years or more.

[The antihero]

Originally Posted by olhamada

I think you are correct. In addition, they smell "blood in the water" because of Israel's own internal strife and are salivating at the thought of a feeding frenzy.

With regard to birth rates, it's not just Palestinians - it's the entire Muslim population. England and Belgium have already been essentially taken over by Islamic influences and it's only a matter of time. German reproduction is at a low point while Turkish immigrants are reproducing at 2 or 3 times the rate. In 50 years Germany could potentially have a serious Islamic problem. France and Spain could easily follow. In fact, it wasn't too long ago (600 years) that most of Spain was ruled by the Muslim Caliphate.

Well, here in Europe they are still a 3-4% of the population which means they are not taking over so soon. Not that they don't think they will. The problem so far is that they are more and more organizing themselves as a powerful lobby. Like we need yet another one and especially such an aggressive and capricious one.

[Warrior-Mentor]

Which brings up a question...

There was a time in this country when people would march with signs
"BETTER DEAD THAN RED."

How many more attacks before we see a parade of signs:
"BETTER DEAD THAN DHIMMI."?

...but that assumes that there are a significant number of people who even know what a dhimmi is...


.

[SF-TX]

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

...but that assumes that there are a significant number of people who even know what a dhimmi is...


.

That assumes much.

Perhaps it all stems from our unwillingness to identify the enemy we face. Instead, we are counseled to "...keep shopping."

[nmap]

Originally Posted by SF-TX

That assumes much.

Perhaps it all stems from our unwillingness to identify the enemy we face. Instead, we are counseled to "...keep shopping."

Sir, granted that most will not recognize the concept of dhimmitude, I cannot help wondering which group among us is truly unwilling to identify the enemy.

The media, our political leadership, as well as our economic and social elites seem united in their emphasis on shopping. In contrast, their silence on the developing cultural clash is telling. Perhaps the west depends on money from oil producing nations to such an extent that we have already begun a transition from free and equal citizens to dhimmi. Or, perhaps CAIR and similar organizations are particularly effective in their use of litigation to silence others.

[SF-TX]

Originally Posted by nmap

Sir, granted that most will not recognize the concept of dhimmitude, I cannot help wondering which group among us is truly unwilling to identify the enemy.

The media, our political leadership, as well as our economic and social elites seem united in their emphasis on shopping.

I used the collective 'our', because as Benjamin Franklin stated:

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Otherwise, you identified those that are unwilling to identify the enemy, at least publicly.

[frostfire]

There's an assumption that Bush is the reason many parts of the world hate America, and Obama would put a new face to America.

Really?

Pro-Palestine rally in Jakarta blames Obama for letting the attack happen


(copy and paste)powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/01/022468.php