Pro-Hamas Demonstration in Florida

SF-TX · 12-31-2008, 13:01

The link is to video of a pro-Hamas demonstration in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. The clip is unedited and about 9 minutes long. Demonstrators are calling for a humanitarian solution to the conflict in Gaza; If you consider 'nuking' Israel and putting all Jews in a big oven humanitarian.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024156.php

olhamada · 12-31-2008, 13:07

Whoever said this wasn't a religious war was an idiot. It is all about worldviews and religious zealotry.

SF-TX · 12-31-2008, 13:22

If you haven't already seen the documentary "Islam: What the West Needs to Know", I recommend you set aside an hour and half and view the video.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...highlight=west

JustinW20 · 12-31-2008, 13:39

The loony left was out in force in San Francisco yesterday, too…

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&sn=011&sc=845

I am curious why there were no anti-Palestine protests when they were lobbing rockets into Isreal…

God I hate this state, don’t think I’ll ever get the wife to move though. That’s what I get for marrying a California girl…

olhamada · 12-31-2008, 13:39

I do want to clarify that the war I refer to above is the global war we are currently engaged in with Islamic fundamentalism.

However, with regard to the Israeli/Palestinian issue in particular, and however offensive these folks are in the video, there are valid issues to deal with on both sides of the equation. Israel needs complete security for its citizens and national interests, and the Palestinians need autonomy and must be dealt with in humanitarian ways. (I am NOT referring to the terrorist entity Hamas). It is interesting to note that one of the key factors in President Bush's argument in the spin-up to the war in Iraq was Saddam Hussein's failure to comply with certain UN resolutions, while, by far, the nation with the most egregious and numerous UN violations has been Israel.

Red Flag 1 · 12-31-2008, 13:43

Interesting clip.

First amendment at work. Not suprised to see this. Hamas and Israel are at war, have been for a long time. I kept looking for the "juicy" sign with no luck.

Thanks SF-TX.

RF 1

SF-TX · 12-31-2008, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by olhamada

...while, by far, the nation with the most egregious and numerous UN violations has been Israel.

Enlighten us. How is Israel the most egregious UN violator?

It is Israel's responsibility to give the Palestinians autonomy? Why not Jordan? Syria? Egypt? Saudi Arabia?Iran?Etc.?

What would you propose as a 'humanitarian' solution?

SF-TX · 12-31-2008, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Flag 1

Interesting clip.

First amendment at work. Not suprised to see this. Hamas and Islael are at war, have been for a long time. I kept looking for the "juicy" sign with no luck.

Thanks SF-TX.

RF 1

The "Death To All Juice" sign was seen at a rally in NYC, not Florida. It wouldn't have been surprising to see a similar sign in Florida, though.

**Team Sergeant** · 12-31-2008, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SF-TX

The link is to video of a pro-Hamas demonstration in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. The clip is unedited and about 9 minutes long. Demonstrators are calling for a humanitarian solution to the conflict in Gaza; If you consider 'nuking' Israel and putting all Jews in a big oven humanitarian.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024156.php

You got coordinates? I might be able to swing a B-2 strike with JDAMS.

Team Sergeant

olhamada · 12-31-2008, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by SF-TX

Enlighten us. How is Israel the most egregious UN violator?

It is Israel's responsibility to give the Palestinians autonomy? Why not Jordan? Syria? Egypt? Saudi Arabia?Iran?Etc.?

What would you propose as a 'humanitarian' solution?

Great questions – I don’t have all the answers. Evidently, no one does, otherwise we wouldn’t be dealing with this powder keg in 2009. It is the central issue as far as Muslims and the Middle East is concerned. (As you know, only about 25% of Muslims are located in the ME). If we want any sort of lasting peace, this problem has to be solved. We have no alternative. In fact, I believe this was the key factor in our taking our eye off the ball in Afghanistan, leading to our 2003 war in Iraq (I can expound later if you’d like).

Let me start by saying that I am a strong supporter of Israel’s sovereignty – her right to exist in peace and autonomy, and I firmly support her right to vigorously defend herself against any and all threats.

I have lost patience with the Palestinians and have found myself wishing the Israelis would bomb the hell out of them at various points in the past few years.

That being said, for the Israeli government to decry terrorism is somewhat hypocritical as several of Israel’s PMs have actively participated in terroristic activity in their younger days for the sake of political activism (Begin, Shamir, Sharon, Stern Gang, etc…). In other words, terror and hate were bred into both sides – the Palestinian and the Israeli. Now we see the fruits of their labor.

I believe it is Israel’s responsibility to ALLOW Palestinian autonomy (they can’t give it), as it was the UN, Britain, France, Italy, and Israel who took it away, and is now Israel’s sole responsibility to allow. However, it is not autonomy as we understand it here in the West. For millennia, the Middle East has been tribal with little if any central governmental leadership. Palestine has never been a “country” as we think of it, but it has been a people, a land, and a region. Think of the US before colonization. Their “way” was not worse, just different. We, of course, think our way works much better – but for what purpose? Economics, industry, innovation, strength? How about morals, family, respect? Point is - we can learn from each other. That is why I don’t ever see us bringing true democracy to Afghanistan. They just don’t think like we do, and they haven’t for thousands of years.

Ok, so I’m digressing. Why not Jordan, Syria, Egypt? For the same reason we don’t expect Mexico, Canada, or Brazil to take care of Native Americans. We displaced them. It is our responsibility to see they are taken care of. And because only Israel controls the occupied territories. What authority do Egypt, Jordan, or Syria have over the West Bank, Gaza, etc… None. Israel technically doesn’t either, but their military might allows them to operate as they wish in those areas with little resistance. That’s where the humanitarian issues and UN resolutions come into play. Google Israel UN violations – there are literally dozens upon dozens with little or no accountability.

The Palestinian territories are like a large Gitmo. Little freedom, encircled by walls, dehumanized, restricted access from the outside world and to the outside world, no hope. How would you or I react in similar circumstances? I am in no way excusing rockets and suicide bombers. But to defeat them, we have to understand them. If they have valid human needs that can be addressed, why don’t we address them? Otherwise just exterminate them (sarcasm) – but it’s better than living as prisoners simply because they were born in the wrong place.

Now, Hamas, and others want the total and complete destruction of Israel. Until they realize that will never happen and it is not an option, we have our hands tied. I believe the Israelis want peace. The Palestinians want hope. We have to find a way to give them both.

Though I am not tabbed, I consider myself part of the brotherhood of the Special Forces. I was in an SF BN for 10 years. I believe in the same ideals, I think in the same ways, I have trained in many of the same ways, done many of the same things, and I have been to war as staff officer in an SF unit. Our motto is, “de opresso liber”. The Palestinians are an oppressed people group. We owe them the same humanitarian treatment we expect for ourselves and others.

How do you accommodate that without catering to terrorists? I don’t know. But it starts by giving people hope, and then by killing the terrorists. And any of us could be terrorists given the right circumstances.

SF-TX · 12-31-2008, 15:45

I don't profess to have but a modest understanding of political and religious machinations that rule the Middle East. Some of this understanding comes from spending six of my formative years in Saudi Arabia (my father was a contractor for ARAMCO), so my experiences where those of a child. What I do know is that an ideology by the name of Islam motivates the majority of those creating misery and chaos throughout the region.

I will defer to those with a much more intimate knowledge of Islam and the Middle East for answers. I think Father Zakarias Botros is one of them.

He states:

Quote:

"I am not against Muslims although I am against Islam as a false religion. I don't want to disgrace Muslims but to expose Islam. My ultimate intention is to glorify God and to save people, especially Muslims. Muslims are victims. Muhammad deceived them as he himself was deceived by Satan."

An article detailing his efforts is posted here:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ad.php?t=20823

His website is:

http://www.fatherzakaria.net/

6.8SPC_DUMP · 12-31-2008, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SF-TX

If you haven't already seen the documentary "Islam: What the West Needs to Know", I recommend you set aside an hour and half and view the video.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...highlight=west

Listened to the audio of this documentry while working today. It paints a one sided picture that didn't seem to be unfairly biased. Thanks for posting it SF-TX.

**Pete** · 12-31-2008, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by olhamada

.....while, by far, the nation with the most egregious and numerous UN violations has been Israel.

You talking about the same UN that is fixin' to make any badmouthing of the Religion of Peace Illegal?

**The Reaper** · 12-31-2008, 16:30

If Gaza is any example of how the Palestinians behave when given land and an opportunity, I would not look forward to a lot more concessions by Israel.

Hamas terrorists, suicide bombers, and rocket rocket attacks on civilian areas are not things we normally desire in our neighbors.

Why is Israel not considered equally worthy of being freed from oppression? They would seem to be surrounded by hostile forces who seek their destruction. At the same time, they have managed, through their own hard work, to thrive in a desert area which was largely undeveloped prior to their arrival.

The former terrorists in the Israeli government are now very old and have largely died off.

TR

Sigaba · 12-31-2008, 17:11

What I don't understand and don't appreciate is how the American MSM prominently displays images of the consequences of Israeli attacks on Hamas-held positions. For example, the front page of today's Los Angeles Times features a photograph of a crowd of Palestinians carrying a body.

Where are the photos of (a) the consequences of the rocket attacks that have provoked the current crisis and (b) Hamas's use of violence to suppress dissent and to appropriate humanitarian aid?

To put it bluntly, I was disgusted by pro-Hamas rallies last weekend in Anaheim, CA, especially by the soundbites from self-described experts who argued that American support for Israel decreased America's standing in the world as well as the country's own security and encouraged more terrorism.