Looks Like It Is Over

[GratefulCitizen]

As TR has pointed out, Obama has made promises, many of which would appear to be mutually exclusive.

Does he attempt to leverage socialism against the economy in order to appease one part of his base?
If so, the losers will be all of the 18 - early 20's folks trying to find work.

What will be the consequences in 2 or 4 years?

It is difficult to guage how effective his teflon will be.

Also, the democratic party may have lost their prime issue: victimhood.
When holding the reins of power, who do you blame?

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Off topic, but how many minds do you think he changed?

Was that the end of accepting public financing we just heard?

TR

A ton. He made people think he could do the job, and McCain did not have the money or the balls to run the negative ad campaign that was required to explain to people what he's really about.

Yes, I don't see many candidates taking public money anymore and winning.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by GratefulCitizen

When holding the reins of power, who do you blame?

I am sure that the answer will be Bush, for at least four more years.

If Obama screws it up badly enough, I wonder if HRC might challenge him in 2012?

TR

[rubberneck]

Public financing is to public elections as MAD is to nuclear deterrence. Obama crossed the Rubicon and there is no going back.

[Slantwire]

Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer

This is the result of the left controlling the schools and media for the last 20 years. It will only get worse if we don't take them back, especially the schools.

Originally Posted by ZonieDiver

It is time for some people with conservative political values to consider entering the educational field upon their retirement from their current occupations. Quite frankly, those of us with that worldview who are trying to get students to actually think, evaluate data, present a cogent argument, and keep an open mind are surrounded, cut-off, and in danger of being overrun.

I fully agree with you both. It's insufficient to raise our own families well. We lose to demographics that way. We need to bring back personal accountability, logical rigor and intellectual honesty in the general populace - sanity on elections and "the issues" will follow.

Most of the population comes up through the public school system. The NEA has a stranglehold there, and indoctrinates youth for a dozen years.

Time for some UW within our own country. How do we counter an entrenched state-supported, union-run propaganda and indoctrination system? Teaching proper values at home does part of the job, but the school environment remains. Kids end up commuting between two different places with two different worldviews. They may choose one side (and become pariahs at the opposite location), or become herd-followers (conforming to the mass at each location) - which is really choosing one of the sides, in this case.

[jiggz23]

.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by jiggz23

....the recent political season has been intense for many. my post was a reflection of my elation at the time and a reaction to the notion that all BHO supporters have no clue.......

Your post did did not address the socialism question.

[echoes]

..."and a reaction to the notion that all BHO supporters have no clue."

If I may humbly add, THEY DON'T!

(back in my lane...)

Holly

[Pete]

Originally Posted by echoes

..."and a reaction to the notion that all BHO supporters have no clue."

If I may humbly add, THEY DON'T!

(back in my lane...)

Holly

The sad thing is that many of them do. To them it is OK to take money from others and put it in their pocket. They need it.

[nmap]

Originally Posted by Pinhead

How do we counter an entrenched state-supported, union-run propaganda and indoctrination system? Teaching proper values at home does part of the job, but the school environment remains. Kids end up commuting between two different places with two different worldviews. They may choose one side (and become pariahs at the opposite location), or become herd-followers (conforming to the mass at each location) - which is really choosing one of the sides, in this case.

To counter the enemy, study the enemy's tactics.

Look at the Education departments in colleges and universities. Look at the courses, and the books used in those courses.

I, personally, at this moment am enrolled in a graduate level course in educational leadership. A required textbook is titled "Can We Talk about Race", by Beverly Daniel Tatum, Ph.D. It quotes William Ayers (yes, THAT Ayers) on page 94. This is not an isolated incident.

The leftists indoctrinate the teachers and college students, who in turn indoctrinate the children. This has been going on for decades. And, until I started taking the courses, I had no idea.

How does one counter it? Knowledge, first. Then let elected officials know what tax money is being spent on.

By the way...ACORN and other such organizations make no secret of their methods and tactics. Could one learn those approaches and modify them?

[afchic]

If it wasn't so tragic I would laugh instead of cry, but this morning on another board I frequent, this was the title of the thread.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by jiggz23

my post was a reflection of my elation at the time and a reaction to the notion that all BHO supporters have no clue.

jiggz:

Would you not agree that there are significant numbers of people who voted for Obama because of the color of his skin, his promises of financial incentives, because someone else asked them to, because they thought it was cool, because they did not want to appear to be racist, because they hated President Bush, or worst of all, because they did understand exactly what he is trying to do and want to be a part of it? The first portion of these people would be sheeple, and the latter wolves.

I think another group would be those who listened to his message, thought they understood what he wanted, and truly believe that he can do it. Those are the starry-eyed worshipers and sycophants mentioned earlier. It concerns me that there is not enough understanding of economics, politics, history, sociology, or just plain simple math to understand that the promises cannot be met within our current fiscal constraints.

There was quite a bit of voter fraud going on as well, and that concerns me most. I saw two fraudulent ballots cast, and the elections officials did nothing. I thought it was supposed to be one man, one vote. Or that used to be the way. We seem to be descending into a third world system of voting, with the "vote early and vote often" motto. I am not sure our electoral system is not in need of international observers to guarantee the security of it.

As a student, would it not be fair to take grade points away from the higher performing students, and apply those points to those who are failing? Who needs them more? Wouldn't it really be better if everyone in the classes got a "C"? Or better yet, everyone an "A"?

It is like the Dim spokesmen trying to explain refund checks for people who did not pay any taxes. They said, "well, they paid FICA taxes". HELLO, that is Social Security taxes! Does anyone think that we have sufficient excess funds in the social security trust to be issuing rebates? Hell, we are not that far from issuing IOUs to the elderly. I do not know too many elderly who would want to impose that burden, with 50 years of interest, on their grandkids.

There are way too many holes in his plans for him to impose them all, without a staggering tax or public debt burden.

The Dims have been in charge of Congress, and the Federal purse strings for the past two years. What have they done? Why have they not passed a balanced budget, or passed an ethical bill, or an anti-pork pledge? Did they think the POTUS would veto it?

Now, Obama is coming to town. Maybe he and the Dim Congress will govern from the center. But thus far, his staff recommendations do not look like it. To me, it looks like partisan politics as usual, and they will accomplish little positive, and virtually nothing in a bipartisan manner (which he has never had a record of anyway). Time will tell. I would like to hear Obama say in his Inaugural speech, "President Bush is gone and as the new POTUS, I accept full responsibility for everything that happens from now on. This is my watch. The buck stops here." Think he will do it, or keep blaming Bush for years after he is gone?

I think the majority of Obama voters are clueless, and voted for him for the wrong reasons, but he is the president-elect now and we will soon see. I hope for all our sakes that he turns out better than we anticpate.

TR

[echoes]

Originally Posted by Pete

The sad thing is that many of them do. To them it is OK to take money from others and put it in their pocket. They need it.

Thank You Pete Sir, for posting this statement!
And here is the thing about "needing" it...

Yes there are those who are disabled, be it by birth or an accident, that truly can live a life outside of an institution, without help from the governemnt.

And ironically enough, most of the disabled folks I interact with DO NOT WANT any kind of "handout" from the government...They would all rather WORK, in whatever capacity they can, to be productive members of soceity!

Just my .000002.

Holly

[BryanK]

" Democracy is when everyone gets what the majority deserves "

"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me." Psalm 23:4

[Defender968]

Originally Posted by blue02hd

jiggz23, I for one won't even entertain your offer to engage in a "proper discourse" with you and I will list the reasons why:

1. You offer this "engagement" the day AFTER the election is finished. If you truly felt you had a strong arguement you would have posted before, not now.

2. I can clearly see you do not understand the audience you address here. This is a site that is run by, and established for some of the most learned and professional military members that you will ever have a chance to meet. They are the ones who have made history, and are spoken about in the books, movies, and who continue to push the envelope within this chosen profession. I will repeat the word "profession", as it is something very different from "service", opportunity, and "once was". I am in awe of the mentor who introduced me to this site, and look forward to learning from others daily when I log on. These are men who have something to share for those of us still willing to learn. These are the caliber of men I will engage in a discussion with, not you. I have no idea who you are. You know my age, profession, and education. What do you offer?

3. If you have read line 2, then you may understand that you will NOT get engaged in a "discussion" by the active duty members on this site, as the new President Elect is now our future Commander in Chief. Just as we served honorably for the Presidents prior will serve our new CINC the same. In the military we defend Democracy, but we do not practice it.

Change in this country is coming, but it will not be by the feeble minded who only pile on when things are good, and when the pack speaks. This is how I view you and your decision to post now.

For those on this site who are free to speak their minds, please continue, as knowledge comes from those with the wisdom and experience to share it. For those of us who remain in service, we still have a job to do, and the ruck sack in the corner still weighs the same.

+1

Originally Posted by Trip_Wire

I see in your profile that you are a student, with no military service noted in that profile. I also noticed, that this was your fourth post on this board. It seems to me that you are not in a position to be critical of posts made here by others. We all have opinions and thoughts on this election and the next CIC. There are many here that are still serving or have served this Countries military for over 30 years. I think you should think about that before spouting off to other posters here.

I have also noticed, that as a student you can't seem spell ('campaing') Or was that just a typo?

My advice to you, is to take your own advice to read more and talk/post less, especially about the military, since you haven't served. Since you list yourself as a student, one has to assume you don't have a lot of real life experience, to base your statements on either.

I doubt that you will find any takers for a 'discourse' with you on any matters of any real importance that are discussed here, given your profile and 'attitude' that you have shown in your last post. I know, that I have no wish to discuss anything with you given that attitude on your 4th post here.

+2

Originally Posted by jiggz23

Gentlemen,

the recent political season has been intense for many. my post was a reflection of my elation at the time and a reaction to the notion that all BHO supporters have no clue.

much time is spent on these boards and i recognize and appreciate the caliber of individuals who frequent the website.

yes, I am a student. I am learning.

TR,

I think you have displayed what it means to have proper discourse. Your response to my post reserved judgment and allowed me the ability to respond in kind.

Jiggz23

First, young man you have not responded in kind, TR allowed you a chance to prove you had the maturity and mental dexterity to engage in proper discourse, this was very generous on his part IMHO, and so far you have completely FAILED in that endeavor.

Second while I and the many others far smarter on this board could easily engage in "proper discourse" with you, you clearly by your profile and your nonsensical posts lack the experience, maturity, or baseline education to interact in that way. Now pay attention... because you lack the aforementioned traits any one of us could simply start smoking you for your uneducated opinion, but as this is not my house I and most others have resisted the urge to do so, we for the most part have simply ignored you. Yet while thus far I personally have resisted my urge to jump on you like a thug on a rich, drunk, college girl walking through the hood, my patience is wearing very thin with your cavalier attitude as displayed in both of your posts in this thread.

Last a bit of advice, if I were you, I would take one of two paths, the first and wisest would be to humbly retrograde back into the shadows and lurk until you are older, wiser, more experienced, and can actually have an intelligent conversation with the caliber of individual on this board. The second is less advised and decidedly less wise but still an option, it is to tighten your belt, make your most intellectual argument for your very unpopular opinion and be prepared for the aftermath, but realize the beatings will be long and thorough as you are at a decided disadvantage in both education and experience. Either way you need to man up or stand down, the fact that you are young, a student or still learning will not earn you a pass, not in my book, not when you and your peers sharing your unenlightened views are threatening the very freedom that we in the military have fought and died for with your ill advised theories on what does and more importantly does not constitute socialism.

Rant Off.