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Old 12-09-2007, 23:52   #1
Razor
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Why Should You Carry?

Well, here's the answer to anyone that ever thought that carrying a concealed weapon everywhere, even to church, was being paranoid:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22174890/

Police: Colorado shootings may be linked
2 slain at missionary center; in later attack at church, gunman, victim die

By JUDITH KOHLER
Associated Press Writer

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. - A gunman shot four staff members at a missionary training center near Denver early Sunday, killing two, after being told he couldn't spend the night. About 12 hours later and 65 miles away, a gunman fatally shot a parishioner at a megachurch and wounded four other people before a guard killed him, police said.

The police chief in Arvada, a suburb about 15 miles west of Denver where the mission workers were shot, said the shootings may be related to those at the Colorado Springs church but declined to elaborate. Arvada authorities said no one had been captured in the shootings there.

The gunman at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs was shot and killed by a church security guard after entering the church's main foyer with a high-powered rifle shortly before 1 p.m. and opening fire, Colorado Springs Police Chief Richard Myers said. Four others were wounded, Myers said.

The church's 11 a.m. service had recently ended, and hundreds of people were milling about when the gunman opened fire. Nearby were parents picking up their children from the nursery.

‘Probably saved many lives’
Police arrived to find that the gunman had been killed by a member of the church's armed security staff, Myers said.

"There was a courageous staff member who probably saved many lives here today," Myers said.


Gov. Bill Ritter ordered state authorities to help investigate. The FBI and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were assisting, and officers combed the church campus looking for suspicious devices.

Three of the injured were taken to Penrose Community Hospital in Colorado Springs, said hospital spokeswoman Amy Sufak. One person was critical, she said. It wasn't known where the fourth injured person was being treated.

New Life was founded by the Rev. Ted Haggard, who was fired last year after a former male prostitute alleged he had a three-year cash-for-sex relationship with him. Haggard, then the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, admitted committing undisclosed "sexual immorality."

Mission training program has office at church
The New Life church is one of Colorado's largest with about 10,000 members. The mission training program in Arvada has a small office at the church's World Prayer Center on the New Life campus.

About 7,000 people were on the Colorado Springs campus at the time of the shooting, Boyd said. Security at the church had been beefed up after the early morning shootings in Arvada, he said.

That shooting happened at about 12:30 a.m. at the Youth With a Mission center in Arvada, a Denver suburb, police spokeswoman Susan Medina said.

A man and a woman were killed and two men were wounded, Medina said. All four were staff members of the center, said Paul Filidis, a Colorado Springs-based spokesman with Youth With a Mission.

Arvada Police Chief Don Wick, asked whether he believed there was reason to think the shootings are related, responded, "Yes, there is reason to believe that."

Wick said the suspect spent several minutes speaking with people inside the dorm. Peter Warren, director of Youth With a Mission Denver, said the man asked whether he could spend the night. Several youths called on Tiffany Johnson, the center's director of hospitality.

"The director of hospitality was called. That's when he opened fire," Warren said. Johnson, 26, was killed.

Warren said he didn't know whether any of the students or staff knew the gunman. "We don't know why" he came to the dormitory, Warren said.

Witnesses told police that the gunman was a 20-year-old white male, wearing a dark jacket and skull cap, who had a handgun and left on foot. He may have glasses or a beard.

Police with dogs searched the area through the night, and residents of nearby homes were notified by reverse 911 to be on the lookout. Medina said residents were asked to look out their windows for any tracks left in the snow during the night. About 4 inches of snow had fallen in the area in the past day.

In addition to Johnson, killed in Arvada was Philip Crouse, 24. Youth With a Mission said Johnson was from Minnesota and Crouse was from Alaska.

The missionary center identified the wounded as Dan Griebenow, 24, of South Dakota, and Charlie Blanch, 22, whose hometown wasn't immediately known. One of the men was in critical condition, and the other was stable, police said.

The missionary center is on the grounds of the Faith Bible Chapel. Cheril Morrison, wife of chapel pastor George Morrison, said Crouse had just hung up Christmas lights at her home and that Johnson was "an amazingly beautiful person."

‘Why would anybody want to hurt those kids?’
Mimi Martin, who lives near the center, said she received the warning call at about 9 a.m. warning neighbors to keep their doors and windows locked.

"Why would anybody want to hurt those kids?" Martin said.

Darv Smith, director of a Youth With a Mission center in Boulder, said people ranging from their late teens to their 70s undergo a 12-week course that prepares them to be missionaries. He said the center trains about 300 people a year.

Filidis said staffers are usually former missionaries themselves and that the "mercy ministries" performed by trainees include orphanage work. He said he didn't know where the group being trained in Arvada was going to be sent.

Youth With a Mission was started in 1960 and now has 1,100 locations with 16,000 full-time staff, Smith said. The Arvada center was founded in 1984.
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Old 12-10-2007, 00:24   #2
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Wow

I've worked for this organization in Fiji, amazing hearts. The Colorado campus is well known for its work in orphanages in Eastern Europe. I looked into studying there a few years back.

Even though YWAM is a large organization, it is a very close knit and young community, YWAMers all over the world will be shocked at this news.

My prayers go out to the victims and their families.

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Last edited by Scimitar; 12-10-2007 at 09:08.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:44   #3
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A little more

A little more on the same story.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...Y&SECTION=HOME

I bet the perp thought it was another place with only sheep. Good thing a sheep dog was there.

Notice how far down and how little play the "armed guard" gets in the story?

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Old 12-10-2007, 10:04   #4
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I was pleasantly surprised by the fact the local news stations repeatedly mentioned the security guard and kept calling (edited by Razor: initial reports indicated the good guy shooter was a he; that has obviously been changed) her a hero.

Of course this is the same county that just last week found a store owner that shot and killed a robber not guilty, has a shall-issue CCW policy, has a castle doctrine law on the books and has a population of over 10% retired mil.
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Old 12-10-2007, 13:35   #5
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Originally Posted by Razor View Post
I was pleasantly surprised by the fact the local news stations repeatedly mentioned the security guard and kept calling him a hero.

Of course this is the same county that just last week found a store owner that shot and killed a robber not guilty, has a shall-issue CCW policy, has a castle doctrine law on the books and has a population of over 10% retired mil.
I need to move back there.
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Old 12-10-2007, 14:05   #6
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2 Sheep Dogs amongst the sheep.

Quote:
Vietnam vet among Springs wounded

Larry Bourbannais, 59, was eating a hamburger in the cafeteria on the church campus when he heard gunfire, said his daughter, Sherry Smith.

Bourbannais headed in the direction of the shots as frightened people ran past him looking to escape to safety.

"Where's the shooter, where's the shooter," my dad kept yelling, Smith said.

Smith, 28, and other family members met Bourbannais at a hospital Sunday where he was treated for a gunshot wound in the arm and released.

Bourbannais was alert at the hospital and told Smith in detail about the shooting.

Bourbannais came upon the gunman near an entry way in a building and yelled at him to draw his attention, Smith said.
That's when the shooter pointed a handgun at Bourbannais and fired, she said.

Bourbannais had ducked behind a hollow, decorative pillar and was hit in the arm by the bullet and fragments of the pillar.

At about that moment, a woman with a drawn handgun turned a corner and walked toward the gunman and yelled "Surrender," Smith said.

When the gunman pointed his weapon at the woman, she fired at him and kept walking toward him as she continued firing, Smith said.

"My dad said it was the bravest thing he had ever seen," Smith said.

The woman fired off about 10 to 12 shots as she kept walking toward the shooter.

After the gunman went down, Bourbannais asked the woman, who has only been identified as a volunteer security guard with the church, how she remained so calm and focused.

Smith said the woman told Bourbannais: "She was praying for guidance from the Holy Spirit."

Also it is being reported, that PD have ID'd the gunman and have found a link between the Spings shooting and the Arvada shooting.
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Last edited by Sdiver; 12-10-2007 at 14:09.
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Old 12-10-2007, 14:20   #7
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Originally Posted by Sdiver View Post
2 Sheep Dogs amongst the sheep.

Also it is being reported, that PD have ID'd the gunman and have found a link between the Spings shooting and the Arvada shooting.
Speed, surprise, violence of action. Classic.

Chick with a gun, burning down a crazy guy in a gunfight, now that is hot!!

It occurs to me that she may have been just a routine CCW holder, and the church may be covering for her status. Good for them!

I wish there were more like her, and fewer sheep and wolves.

TR
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Old 12-10-2007, 14:28   #8
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Great job in nailing the perp !

On the topic title "Why Should You Carry", if it were legal here, I would.
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Old 12-10-2007, 16:36   #9
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Amen!

Good job on all sides (no friendly fire)!
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Old 12-10-2007, 17:52   #10
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Slightly more detail:

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_7683781
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Old 12-10-2007, 18:16   #11
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Originally Posted by The Reaper View Post
It occurs to me that she may have been just a routine CCW holder, and the church may be covering for her status. Good for them!

TR
That may be Sir, but I just finished watching the press conference with Miss Assam, and she states that, not only does she have prior LEO experience (which dept., she didn't say) she was on duty there at the church that day (and coming off a 3 day fast), to which the church has 12 licensed armed security guards on staff.

Here is part of the press conference.....already.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_7684728
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Old 12-10-2007, 19:45   #12
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Hopefully enough of these Shooters will get gunned down to deter future attacks. IMO they are cowards who would chicken out if they knew there was a loaded Gun waiting on them and not just scared kids hiding under Desks.
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Old 12-10-2007, 19:57   #13
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Hopefully enough of these Shooters will get gunned down to deter future attacks. IMO they are cowards who would chicken out if they knew there was a loaded Gun waiting on them and not just scared kids hiding under Desks.
The idea works here.....

25 years murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'
Crime rate plummeted after law required firearms for residents

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55288
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:42   #14
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Wink I feel your pain...

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Originally Posted by Tuukka View Post
On the topic title "Why Should You Carry", if it were legal here, I would.
Stay safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sg1987
The idea works here.....

25 years murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'
Crime rate plummeted after law required firearms for residents

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55288
I was looking for this to present in my next sociology and physchology classes...

Thanks!
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Old 12-11-2007, 17:11   #15
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The Lady that put the Shooter down is good looking
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