Point Shooting

[ktek01]

I use it for very close ranges, I like to bring the weapon up ready for point shooting, but going for the front site if I have time, and a complete sight picture if I have plenty of time. I find that I get a quicker sight picture if I do it that way, and if shit happens before I am fully up then I at least have a very good probablilty of hitting the target before I can get my sight picture. Not sure if that makes sense, several long days and crappy food, but that is what I try to do. Same with the rifle, always in a point shoot mode, ready to present and fire if needed, but still going for the sights at the same time.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by The Reaper
Where is the Team Sergeant on this?

TR

Here I am reporting as ordered.....

Ah, Point shooting, don’t know how I missed this thread, currently my favorite discussion topic.

As a trained military professional, weapons and weapons training is/was as important to me as breathing air. Knowing that when called upon to go to work I would be employing my skills to defend the Constitution of the United States and not looking out for “number one� made all the difference.

Point shooting is not only a “shooting technique� it is a mindset, and a defensive mind-set at that. It is mostly employed by those that might someday actually be forced to use the weapon they carry on a day to day basis to “defend� themselves. It is also employed by those with little to no formal or professional weapons training. It is a last resort of far too many that believe speed is the answer to any firefight and which is what separates the amateurs from the Professionals.

A few points to ponder concerning point shooting;

Most criminals utilize point shooting techniques, which makes me sleep well at night.

Special Operations CQB is performed at very close ranges, and most employ specialized optics, hell why not point shoot?

All Hollywood actors “point shoot� in their movies, hit everybody they are aiming at and never have to reload.

Point shooting has no place in professional weapons training, period.

Team Sergeant

[BadMuther]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
Here I am reporting as ordered.....

Ah, Point shooting, don’t know how I missed this thread, currently my favorite discussion topic.

As a trained military professional, weapons and weapons training is/was as important to me as breathing air. Knowing that when called upon to go to work I would be employing my skills to defend the Constitution of the United States and not looking out for “number one� made all the difference.

Point shooting is not only a “shooting technique� it is a mindset, and a defensive mind-set at that. It is mostly employed by those that might someday actually be forced to use the weapon they carry on a day to day basis to “defend� themselves. It is also employed by those with little to no formal or professional weapons training. It is a last resort of far too many that believe speed is the answer to any firefight and which is what separates the amateurs from the Professionals.

A few points to ponder concerning point shooting;

Most criminals utilize point shooting techniques, which makes me sleep well at night.

Special Operations CQB is performed at very close ranges, and most employ specialized optics, hell why not point shoot?

All Hollywood actors “point shoot� in their movies, hit everybody they are aiming at and never have to reload.

Point shooting has no place in professional weapons training, period.

Team Sergeant

Well, what about flash site pictures focusing on the bad guy at very close range?


TS, I'd think that you would agree that target focus flash site pictures are a lot different from unaimed point shooting.

Jim

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by BadMuther
Well, what about flash site pictures focusing on the bad guy at very close range?


TS, I'd think that you would agree that target focus flash site pictures are a lot different from unaimed point shooting.

Jim

You sir, are now speaking my lingo….

A flash front sight is what I use to make my fastest shots. It’s the difference between grazing an opponents ear or placing a round through his left eye socket.

TS

[BadMuther]

Gotcha.....

Now we are both on the same sheet of music TS.

Let me ask you this though.

At Ranges of say 0-7, when you are using a flash site picture, are you focusing on the target or the front site?

Thanks,

Jim

[Bill Harsey]

Col. Rex Applegate had always stressed to me that point shooting as he taught it was AIMED FIRE and to always bring the handgun to eye level before shooting. I'm starting to think what he was doing was very close to what you call getting a Flash Front Site.

[Team Sergeant]

There’s only a few people on this planet that I allow within three feet of me. So let’s talk 5 feet and beyond and yes I would use a flash front sight. The target is always in focus when using a flash front sight, that’s the idea, when you see the front sight “flash� upon the tgt you used a controlled trigger pull to place rounds on target. I also temper that with the reality one may have to make a “high value� shot and if so the focus would change back to the front sight.

TS

BTW, I do hope you do not allow anyone within 0 feet of yourself unless you are wearing a condom…

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by Bill Harsey
Col. Rex Applegate had always stressed to me that point shooting as he taught it was AIMED FIRE and to always bring the handgun to eye level before shooting. I'm starting to think what he was doing was very close to what you call getting a Flash Front Site.

I have not read any of the Col's shooting techniques so I cannot comment on what he meant. But "Aimed Fire" to me would be employing a sighting system of some sort.

TS

[Bill Harsey]

First, I do not pretend to be an expert on this topic but I can repeat what Rex Applegate taught me. Col. Applegate always stressed that point shooting was aimed fire, not "sighted fire". He was careful to make this distinction. This is what makes me think you guys might be closer rather than
farther apart. Also of note he taught the handgun as offensive shooting. He said this was the quickest way to insure the outcome of a gun battle in our favor.

[Smokin Joe]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
There’s only a few people on this planet that I allow within three feet of me. So let’s talk 5 feet and beyond and yes I would use a flash front sight. The target is always in focus when using a flash front sight, that’s the idea, when you see the front sight “flash� upon the tgt you used a controlled trigger pull to place rounds on target. I also temper that with the reality one may have to make a “high value� shot and if so the focus would change back to the front sight.

TS

BTW, I do hope you do not allow anyone within 0 feet of yourself unless you are wearing a condom…

TS,

If you don't mind would you appease me in a scenario question.

I'm not trying to split hairs here, nor am I trying to be condescending by my question. I know Bad Mofo used to be a cop and I currently work in the LEO field. So he can relate to my scenario. Unfortunatly there are a zillion variables in any give situation but how would you handle this situation? I understand you are not, nor were you a cop, and I'm not trying to mix your training and experience for that given to a standard cop. I'm just trying to possible learn something new.

You are on foot patrol in an urban area, you stop and talk to an individual and find out he has a Violent Crime (Felony) warrant out for his arrest. You tell the guy to turn around and place his hands behind his back, the guy is totally cooperates, you close the distance to place him into handcuffs, when you are about a foot away the guy turns and pulls a gun.

If anyone else wants to add how they would handle this I'm all ears.

Thank you Team Sergeant.

[Sacamuelas]

Smokin Joe-

I am not pretending to and won't try to chime in an answer to your scenario. I have a simple question after reading your scenario though.

Your scenario of being <1 foot away and being drawn on in surprise ...wouldn't that dictate the use of a different tactic due to the close range involved. Due to him having the drop on you already at that range, wouldn't a H2H disarming tactic or strike to deflect his weapon away from your midline be better as your initial response verses trying outshoot a suspect that has already drawn down on you? I would think your chances are slim to none if you try to draw/aim or "point"/fire faster than he can simply pull his trigger.

Just a question.. I am not LE or by any means someone like the TS... Just asking a question. Thanks

[Smokin Joe]

Originally posted by Sacamuelas
Smokin Joe-

I am not pretending to and won't try to chime in an answer to your scenario. I have a simple question after reading your scenario though.

Your scenario of being <1 foot away and being drawn on in surprise ...wouldn't that dictate the use of a different tactic due to the close range involved. Due to him having the drop on you already at that range, wouldn't a H2H disarming tactic or strike to deflect his weapon away from your midline be better as your initial response verses trying outshoot a suspect that has already drawn down on you? I would think your chances are slim to none if you try to draw/aim or "point"/fire faster than he can simply pull his trigger.

Just a question.. I am not LE or by any means someone like the TS... Just asking a question. Thanks

Its your discreation. Do you want to duke it out fist to gun or go to guns on the guy?

I personally might try and trap the gun while I shove one of my knives through his larynx past his upper palet trying to get his brain stem (it would be a lucky shot but who knows). Or trap the weapon and stick my gun to his head. It all depends METT-T dependent. As this scenario goes your close REAL close and you are behind the curve so you need to do something to survive. I have done enough martial arts and defensive tacitcs to know that in a situation like this you need to comit to something disarming him may take too long or he may have backed away from you enough to catch you overly commited and completely outstretched.

This is what we call a "What-if" scenario that I/we do all the time. That way you have a plan in case this does happen. What you do is your decision but it maybe your last. In short I DON'T have the correct answer. Sorry.

[Team Sergeant]

SJ,

I am not going to get into “what if� scenarios on this board. In my line of work we didn’t “what if� we had “contingency plans� for various scenarios. I am sure you also have departmental protocols for most situations you might encounter.

Anyway it would seem you have already answered your own question. Let’s get back to point shooting.

TS

[Razor]

Joe,

Are we to assume we're LE, and we're alone? I ask because from a non-LE viewpoint, if I had to (and were able to) close with a known violent person to apply restraints, I would approach with my weapon ready and aimed at his melon so that the first sign of his resistance would be met with instant incapacitation. Even better would be to have a buddy also targeting him and skew from my line of approach so that once I've reached arm's length and require the use of both hands the bad guy is still covered by someone able to quickly end the threat should he show any signs of resistance.

[Smokin Joe]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
SJ,

I am not going to get into “what if� scenarios on this board. In my line of work we didn’t “what if� we had “contingency plans� for various scenarios. I am sure you also have departmental protocols for most situations you might encounter.

Anyway it would seem you have already answered your own question. Let’s get back to point shooting.

TS

Understood Team Sergeant.


Razor yup your a cop trying to affect an arrest and you are alone.