06-27-2007, 17:48
|
#1
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: No. Va
Posts: 407
|
I heard Donvito no longer has the contract to teach combatives at SWCS. Maybe someone will tell us what is being taught now.
|
|
Leozinho is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 18:59
|
#2
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
|
I will never understand why we feel we have to keep re-inventing this wheel.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
|
|
NousDefionsDoc is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 19:02
|
#3
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 462
|
Does anyone have any experience with or an opinion on the Dieter CQD system?
__________________
The strength of a nation is its knowledge. -Welsh Proverb
X
|
|
x-factor is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 20:04
|
#4
|
|
Guerrilla Chief
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 864
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc
I will never understand why we feel we have to keep re-inventing this wheel.
|
NDD: I agree. How come the services can't sit down and come up with something everyone can use? Something that can be tailored so you can go lethal or nonlethal, depending on the situation.
__________________
So let me fill my children's hearts
With heroes tales and hope it starts
A fire in them so deeds are done
With no vain sighs for moments gone
|
|
Monsoon65 is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 20:33
|
#5
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,823
|
The best one I ever heard about it was that the guy who usually wins the hand to hand fight is the one who has a buddy show up first with a loaded weapon.
I believe it.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
|
|
The Reaper is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 21:38
|
#6
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 249
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by The Reaper
The best one I ever heard about it was the guy who usually wins the hand to hand fight is the one who has a buddy show up first with a loaded weapon.
I believe it.
TR
|
A knife trumps a man's hands...a loaded weapon trumps a knife...
__________________
I never let school get in the way of my education
- Mark Twain
|
|
3SoldierDad is offline
|
|
|
06-28-2007, 07:54
|
#7
|
|
Bladesmith to the Quiet Professionals
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon, Land of the Silver Grey Sunsets
Posts: 3,886
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 3SoldierDad
A knife trumps a man's hands...a loaded weapon trumps a knife...
|
That all depends on who's first.
Going to the ground and choking someone out only works for "one at a time" opponents.
|
|
Bill Harsey is offline
|
|
|
06-28-2007, 08:58
|
#8
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 249
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bill Harsey
That all depends on who's first.
Going to the ground and choking someone out only works for "one at a time" opponents.
|
Yes exactly - And, I suppose in a hand-to-hand confrontation - the matter of speed to your knife versus speed to your rifle/pistol matters as well...A knife can theoretically trump a loaded weapon - I'm thinking about the scene in Saving Private Ryan where the German soldier kills the GI with a knife when a weapon jams (or out of ammo can't quite remember) and other weapons are otherwise out of reach (one soldier stands petrified outside the door with his loaded weapon) - Although the actual scene was fiction veterans say this combat scenario was not necessarily uncommon as a potential reality in both urban and jungle warfare. It seems victory often depends on a Warrior's readiness and the dexterity of his hands to get to his knife or even better - his gun.
Lesson: A ready loaded weapon trumps an unready and/or unloaded weapon. In the rock/paper/scissors of close promity man-on-man combat the ready rock will always break the unready scissors.
Experts say that lethal hand-to-hand grappling skills, although very rarely if ever to be used, that the skills increase confidence in the individaul Warrior - He knows that if things ever went baseline primal - one man's body to another - that the Warrior could engage and prevail.
It's a fitness thing - both mental and physical. And, it's a contigency that provides a contribution toward peace of mind.
An analogy: 18Es having their PACE - primary, alternative, contigency, and emergency ways of making communications - defaults for possible failure scenarios. In the real world, you'll probably never need contigency or emergency. But, it's nice to know that it is there.
Three Soldier Dad...Chuck
.
__________________
I never let school get in the way of my education
- Mark Twain
Last edited by 3SoldierDad; 06-28-2007 at 09:26.
|
|
3SoldierDad is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 19:25
|
#9
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wherever my ruck finds itself
Posts: 2,972
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Leozinho
...Maybe someone will tell us what is being taught now.
|
In the Echo course and the Delta course they were teaching grappling last I heard, which was current as of 2 weeks ago.
I concur with NDD.
Crip
__________________
"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees."
"Its not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me" -Batman
"There are no obstacles, only opportunities for excellence."- NousDefionsDoc
|
|
Surgicalcric is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 19:53
|
#10
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Baghdad Iraq & Springfield Mo
Posts: 239
|
x-factor,
I did Dieter's course in 05, its a very simple, reasonably effective system. Its not the end-all, be-all some folks say it is. But it is "another tool for the toolbox", decent PT, you will get your bell-rung doing it, overall if you have a chance to go....definitly worth doing.
|
|
504PIR is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 21:29
|
#11
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 462
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 504PIR
I did Dieter's course in 05, its a very simple, reasonably effective system. Its not the end-all, be-all some folks say it is. But it is "another tool for the toolbox", decent PT, you will get your bell-rung doing it, overall if you have a chance to go....definitly worth doing.
|
Yeah, I did it in mid-2005 too and that was my take on it pretty much exactly.
__________________
The strength of a nation is its knowledge. -Welsh Proverb
X
|
|
x-factor is offline
|
|
|
06-27-2007, 19:56
|
#12
|
|
Guerrilla
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 249
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Surgicalcric
In the Echo course and the Delta course they were teaching grappling last I heard, which was current as of 2 weeks ago.
I concur with NDD.
Crip
|
Yeah, I read somewhere that the grappling is a form of the Gracie brothers Brazilian Jujitsu...Hand-to-hand with lethal intent usually goes to the dirt for the choke. It's hard to beat the Brazilian Jujitsu school for that.
__________________
I never let school get in the way of my education
- Mark Twain
|
|
3SoldierDad is offline
|
|
|
06-28-2007, 11:14
|
#13
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: HI
Posts: 242
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Leozinho
I heard Donvito no longer has the contract to teach combatives at SWCS. Maybe someone will tell us what is being taught now.
|
WRT SWCS...no clue.
But when I signed in to the 1st Group back in '02, they were teaching combatives - specifically, the thought processes (to differentiate from style or school) of Kelly Worden (Renegade JKD) and Marcelus Alonso (Gracie family BJJ). Nowadays, they are using the thought processes of Chief D. / COL W. / and numerous other guys with martial (military) arts training. The other Groups use other ideas of combatives. It is all good...
I agree that the L.I.N.E.S. / Modern Army Combatives / or whatever "style" is taught, is good for the force. For those in the 1st Group, it has the added benefit, in that it helps to give credibility to us on JCETs with HN forces as I found out when discussing the merits of Pikita Tersia in the Philippines with a PHILMAR.
My only caution would be that we do not get too tied to a system / style that we forget we work in (a) different environment(s), e.g. going to the ground to apply a triangle lock / arm bar - works great in training, until your "partner" steps on your head multiple times or when whipping out your knife when a simple hammerlock would work.
Just my humble $0.02.
On a seperate note - Mr Harsey, how much input did you get from the 1st Group on the design of the Pacific? Looks like there were some Asiatic influenced features i.e., the the curve of the handle and the striations on the pommel.
V/R,
__________________
In Oriente Primus
Last edited by Go For Broke; 06-28-2007 at 11:18.
|
|
Go For Broke is offline
|
|
|
07-04-2007, 15:43
|
#14
|
|
Asset
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Afghanistan
Posts: 39
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Leozinho
I heard Donvito no longer has the contract to teach combatives at SWCS. Maybe someone will tell us what is being taught now.
|
It is my understanding that Ron and Mike have re-located to FL looking for an Air Force contract. There is a great article about Lines vs. Modern Army Combatives in last week AF Times.
SWCS recently had a great group of soldiers graduate from the Level III Modern Army Combatives Instructor Course. I was able to watch the progressing of many of the soldiers starting with the Level I course, then level II and then finally to the 4 week Level III course. As a whole, they were a very skilled group.
I would not want to make any assumptions, but the SF Community is giving a commitment to the MAC Program with training instructors, which could lead to MAC being taught in SWCS.
Maybe there are a few guys from the Level III course on here that could weigh-in with experiences from the course.
Jeff
|
|
H2H is offline
|
|
|
07-04-2007, 20:25
|
#15
|
|
Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,478
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by H2H
It is my understanding that Ron and Mike have re-located to FL looking for an Air Force contract. There is a great article about Lines vs. Modern Army Combatives in last week AF Times.
SWCS recently had a great group of soldiers graduate from the Level III Modern Army Combatives Instructor Course. I was able to watch the progressing of many of the soldiers starting with the Level I course, then level II and then finally to the 4 week Level III course. As a whole, they were a very skilled group.
I would not want to make any assumptions, but the SF Community is giving a commitment to the MAC Program with training instructors, which could lead to MAC being taught in SWCS.
Maybe there are a few guys from the Level III course on here that could weigh-in with experiences from the course.
Jeff
|
Phase II is going to be teaching Army Combatives now, this group of students in Phase II are the last to be instructed in LINES, Mike and his dad are moving down to Fort Walden Beach FL. They do have the contract with the Airforce now.
Source for this info is myself talking to Mike last month.
|
|
7624U is offline
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 19:52.
|
|
|
Hybrid Mode
