03-29-2004, 12:18
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#1
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Department of Homeland Security
Was this a good idea? Did it fix anything? Or is it just another layer of bureaucracy?
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-29-2004, 13:33
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#2
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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I'll let you know when I figure out what it is and what it's supposed to accomplish. So far the only visible sign they have left on the American psyche are those threat level “Colors.”
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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03-29-2004, 13:51
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#3
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
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I agree..
Quote:
Originally posted by Team Sergeant
I'll let you know when I figure out what it is and what it's supposed to accomplish. So far the only visible sign they have left on the American psyche are those threat level “Colors.”
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If they would have let the SOF's execute missions the way they trained to...and the LEO's operate with out politics/politicians trying lead the charge.
The "just another layer of bureaucracy" wouldn't be needed!
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“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”
-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
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Guy is offline
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03-29-2004, 14:12
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#4
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JAWBREAKER
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gulf coast
Posts: 1,906
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Based on what we have seen so far...
Was the creation of the Homeland Security Dept. a HONEST attempt at putting together a more cohesive and integrated CT/security/intelligence capability in place or just a political slight of hand designed to show the POTUS did "something" after 9-11?
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Sacamuelas is offline
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03-29-2004, 14:21
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#5
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
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I think both!
Quote:
Originally posted by Sacamuelas
Based on what we have seen so far...
Was the creation of the Homeland Security Dept. a HONEST attempt at putting together a more cohesive and integrated CT/security/intelligence capability in place or just a political slight of hand designed to show the POTUS did "something" after 9-11?
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Every time I fly. I catch HELL!
I guess I should mention that I carry a boresight and a pachtymer all the time. Laptop...PDA...and a pistol rig. 
__________________
“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”
-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
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Guy is offline
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03-29-2004, 14:29
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#6
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central TX
Posts: 1,390
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Re: I think both!
Quote:
Originally posted by Guy
Every time I fly. I catch HELL!
I guess I should mention that I carry a boresight and a pachtymer all the time. Laptop...PDA...and a pistol rig.
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I feel your pain here, It seems like I always get selected for a "random security screening". They always wonder why a person would need so many flashlights.
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Air.177 is offline
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03-29-2004, 14:48
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#7
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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My understanding was DHS was formed to:
1. Correct the "intelligence failure" that is perceived to have led to 9/11
2. Correct the faults in INS that led to visas being issued to hijackers after the incident
3. Provide a coordinating activity for infrastructure protection, etc.
from the website:
The National Strategy for Homeland Security and the Homeland Security Act of 2002 served to mobilize and organize our nation to secure the homeland from terrorist attacks. This exceedingly complex mission requires a focused effort from our entire society if we are to be successful. To this end, one primary reason for the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security was to provide the unifying core for the vast national network of organizations and institutions involved in efforts to secure our nation. In order to better do this and to provide guidance to the 180,000 DHS men and women who work every day on this important task, the Department developed its own high-level strategic plan. The vision and mission statements, strategic goals and objectives provide the framework guiding the actions that make up the daily operations of the department.
Vision
Preserving our freedoms, protecting America ... we secure our homeland.
Mission
We will lead the unified national effort to secure America. We will prevent and deter terrorist attacks and protect against and respond to threats and hazards to the nation. We will ensure safe and secure borders, welcome lawful immigrants and visitors, and promote the free-flow of commerce.
Strategic Goals
Awareness -- Identify and understand threats, assess vulnerabilities, determine potential impacts and disseminate timely information to our homeland security partners and the American public.
Prevention -- Detect, deter and mitigate threats to our homeland.
Protection -- Safeguard our people and their freedoms, critical infrastructure, property and the economy of our Nation from acts of terrorism, natural disasters, or other emergencies.
Response -- Lead, manage and coordinate the national response to acts of terrorism, natural disasters, or other emergencies.
Recovery -- Lead national, state, local and private sector efforts to restore services and rebuild communities after acts of terrorism, natural disasters, or other emergencies.
Service -- Serve the public effectively by facilitating lawful trade, travel and immigration.
Organizational Excellence -- Value our most important resource, our people. Create a culture that promotes a common identity, innovation, mutual respect, accountability and teamwork to achieve efficiencies, effectiveness, and operational synergies.
---
Could also be called the "Total War Department" from the description
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-29-2004, 14:56
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#8
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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The problem I have with it mostly is the "correct the intelligence failure by providing a clearinghouse for intel" - which IIRC was a key selling point.
This was already done in 1947 with the National Security Act. The DCI has the job already, he just doesn't or isn't allowed to do it.
IMO, there are too many cooks in the terrorism soup.
I haven't heard of any leads on the anthrax case, other than Hatfield is suing Ashcroft for the "person of interest" labeL. Who's investigating this and why isn't it showing results?
Is the OKC case closed?
Too many chiefs and not enough Native Americans.
I would do it differently.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-29-2004, 14:59
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#9
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Todays news 34% increase in 6 months, someones not doing their job.
U.S. Considers Plan to End Illegal Border Crossings, NYT Says
March 29 (Bloomberg) -- Illegal border crossings into Arizona have increased 34 percent in the last six months, prompting the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to consider a plan that would return illegal immigrants from Mexico deeper into their country upon capture, the New York Times said.
U.S. and Mexican officials are discussing a plan to ``repatriate'' border crossers from Mexico by transporting them to their hometowns rather than returning them close to the border, the Times reported. Officials hope the move will prevent repeated attempts at entering the U.S., the newspaper reported.
Asa Hutchinson, an undersecretary at Homeland Security, said U.S. officials are committed to the idea, the Times reported.
An unnamed Mexican diplomat said Mexico wouldn't support the plan unless it was voluntary, the paper said.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...=latin_america
__________________
"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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03-29-2004, 15:07
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#10
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JAWBREAKER
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Gulf coast
Posts: 1,906
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My next question would be about the possible disconnection between current US military assets/intelligence gathering efforts in the WOT with that of the new D.H.S. Is their enough timely sharing of information and cooperation between the two organizations (one domestic and one Mainly foreign) to maximize the usefulness of what/who we know to be threats to national security?
I can see where the new "all inclusive" DHS might require more admiinistrative time for "complete review" and 'check off' by all the different agencies under it before the information is disseminated to other agencies(ex. military for a snatch/DA type mission against an individual/safe house). Anyone agree or disagree?
Last edited by Sacamuelas; 03-29-2004 at 15:11.
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Sacamuelas is offline
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03-29-2004, 15:18
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#11
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Area Commander
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MD
Posts: 1,012
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Quote:
Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
I would do it differently.
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What would you do?
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lrd is offline
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03-29-2004, 15:48
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#12
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: OCONUS...again
Posts: 4,702
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Preemptive strikes.
Quote:
Originally posted by lrd
What would you do?
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I'd starting hitting them on there own "TURF"!
__________________
“It is better to have sheep led by a lion than lions led by a sheep.”
-DE OPPRESSO LIBER-
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Guy is offline
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03-29-2004, 15:51
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#13
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Disband DHS
DCI would be the DCI - a professional, not a politician
Central Intelligence Agency would be central - all intel would flow through there. Set it back up like the old OSS
Set up a language/cultural school for Spec Ops, CIA, etc. ONE
Beef up the ops side of CIA and allow lateral transfers from Spec Ops again. However soldiers would continue to get promoted etc.
No more FBI overseas - INS, FBI, ATF all report to the same guy, probably the AG. The legats should be imbedded in major police departments. NYC, LA, Chicago - which would have input in agent eval forms.
All visas from target countries have to be cleared though the CIA
CIA publish the FTO list, not State
State Dept completely refocused. No more homesteading. All State intell and CT personnel moved to CIA
Allow racial profiling from target countries
Put everyone on the same comms system - like an Amber alert type deal. As long as they have a clearance, which they should all have.
Regionally focus task organized teams for combined counter-terrorism teams. Have the ME desk in one place, the LATAM desk in another. probably co-located with the military command for that area.
Anybody doesn't cooperate with his counter-part - he goes to baggage screener the desk day.
Make everybody working in CT sign an oath of enlistment, not a labor contract.
Change the standards - no more Ivy League diploma requirements for example.
At least every other assignment is overseas in a crap area. Find out who really wants to be there.
Make agents go through military training and vice versa.
Allow groups to train together to build relationships.
Make the military intel side one service. No more "each service has its own deal". The Intelligence Force.
Make the Coast Guard part of the Navy.
Consolidate, consolidate, consolidate. There are too many services, too many layers, too many organizations and too many bosses.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-29-2004, 15:54
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#14
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Re: Preemptive strikes.
Quote:
Originally posted by Guy
I'd starting hitting them on there own "TURF"!
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Right. That new guy from HAMAS would be first. You make a threat as the leader of a tango org, you pay the price.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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03-29-2004, 15:55
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#15
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Go forth and "Set the ME ablaze!" LOL
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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