18A path

[futureSoldier]

I am graduating college in December and wish to join the Army. Specifically, I would like to be an 18A. I am confused as to what would be the best path. I have searched this website and others and found several references to the 18A career path, but no real definitive answer. My recruiter recommends going 18x and then applying for OCS. From what I have been able to gather both of the possible routes have a downfall: OCS and then applying for SFAS would require me to wait until the year that I am eligible for the Captain's boards, and I could get routed out or deployed somewhere along the way so that the process is greatly prolonged. 18x, on the other hand, seems promising in that I would at least be in Special Forces (which is a MAJOR goal). The main problem with that is that I haven't read of any SF NCO's that became officers. Moreover, it seems that if this path is possible, it would take quite a long time (upwards of 6 years) because of waiting for the promotion and then having to relearn much of the SF material from an officer's standpoint. How much (if any) of this information accurate? More importantly, what would you all recommend: 18x and then try for OCS or OCS and then try for SFAS?

Thank you for your time (and the great information on this website),

Joe

[jatx]

Why don't you join a NG SF unit as an officer candidate (09S contract), get commissioned, then go to SFAS when you hit 1LT?

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by jatx

Why don't you join a NG SF unit as an officer candidate (09S contract), get commissioned, then go to SFAS when you hit 1LT?

jatx,

Are you a former SF soldier?

Let's stay in our respective lanes.

TS

[jatx]

Strong copy, TS.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by futureSoldier

Specifically, I would like to be an 18A. 18x, on the other hand, seems promising in that I would at least be in Special Forces (which is a MAJOR goal). The main problem with that is that I haven't read of any SF NCO's that became officers. having to relearn much of the SF material from an officer's standpoint.

Joe, let me address some of your questions with a few questions and observations.

First, why do you want to be an 18A? You are right about the time lines. You are looking at about 6 years down range to meet all the gates for 18A by going thru the OCS route. Even then, there is absolutely no guarantee that you will be selected for OCS, get a slot for SFAS, or make the cut for the 18A program. There are a lot of factors at play here.

Second, if becoming SF is your primary goal then by all means go the 18X route. There still is no guarantee that you are going to make that cut either, but if you don't and wind up in the Infantry you can still attempt your OCS effort when you are eligible and get another shot at becoming an 18A.

Third, that growling you hear in the background is coming from SF NCOs that really could give a rat's butt less about whether or not they could have become officers. You must understand that SF is a whole lot different than anything else you are going to find in our military from mindset to execution. SF NCOs have filled slots that have called for 18As from the beginning and are probably more responsible for the development of good 18As than anyone or anything else. Everyone in SF is first a soldier and his military occupational specialty is an additional honing of specialized skill sets that they bring to the team. As far as "relearning" goes, this is a dynamic profession where education never stops. Your initial training that gets you through the qualification course is only your enterance fee to step through the team room door, your real learning starts then and it never stops. If are fortunate to get into SF and serve as a SF NCO the only learning you are going to have to do as an officer is how to deal with others in such a way that you can enable your soldiers to succeed. There is no magic about being an officer, it is just a different level of responsibility with additional demands to that puts the burden on your shoulders for everything your team does or fails to do.

[Ambush Master]

Originally Posted by futureSoldier

. The main problem with that is that I haven't read of any SF NCO's that became officers.Joe

Your SA and Googlefu are WEAK!!

Just a start, try looking up Maj. Gen. Eldon Bargewell. He ran Recon out of CCN as a Sergeant!!! AND there are many more.....LTC Ed Wolcoff, Maj John Plaster and....... these are just a couple of my personal friends that I knew and served with as NCOs!!!!

Sport, I very highly suggest that you work extremely hard on developing your Situational Awareness before you go any further. Whether in here or into the Pipeline, you need to know more about the AO before you start smashing and crashing through the brush!!

I do not need to tell you to move out and draw fire, you are doing quite well on your own!!!

Later
Martin

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by futureSoldier

Specifically, I would like to be an 18A. I am confused as to what would be the best path.

From what I have been able to gather both of the possible routes have a downfall:

The main problem with that is that I haven't read of any SF NCO's that became officers.

#1...pay attention to the gentleman named Jack Moroney...he made Colonel in this SF business at a time when we weren't all that popular with our peers or promotion boards...he knows the business better than i ever could..

#2...pay attention to TS and AM...SF NCOs know quite a bit about the commissioned side of the house...and they know the nuts and bolts of the SF business inside and out because SF is all about NCOs...

#3...any choice you have to make in life has an upside and a downside...decide something and have faith that your efforts will bear fruit...then put your back into what you do, because neither path is all that easy...

#4...you haven't heard of me...but i was an SSG in SF when i opted for OCS...i retired as a Major, mostly because my body seemed to resist me continuing on...i have regrets, but on the whole i was blessed...being commissioned had its rewards and all-in-all, my life went where my decisions took me...i can't change a thing, and even if i could, i wouldn't...

if you want to be an officer, be an officer...if you want to serve in SF, go that route...nothing is guaranteed...being who i am, i would go to SF and if i got the chance to go OCS, i'd consider it...i could have have been very happy to complete my career as an NCO...given a choice between a commission and SF, with being commissioned SF as a null...well, let me put it this way..."hey, Sir, watch this..."

reread what Colonel Moroney took the time to post for you...and search this site and find CSM(R) Edge's (RIP) essay on What's Special about Special Forces...

then go do some push-ups...

[futureSoldier]

Thank you to all who replied-thank you very much-and if anyone else has anything to add, I would appriciate that as well. You answered my questions much more fully and professionally than I expected, especially with regards to the roles of NCO's. I have been leaning the 18x way myself, simply because I think I would rather be low man in SF than big man somewhere else. A main reason I have been wondering at all is simply because almost every former soldier I have spoken with has informed me that I was nuts not to go OCS immediatly(none of them were SF though). I'll keep lurking and reading, especially as my recruiter is to be getting me a rucksack next week-even though I haven't been sure, and still am not sure, I have been training as if I will go 18x.

Thanks again,

Joe

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by futureSoldier

. I have been leaning the 18x way myself, simply because I think I would rather be low man in SF than big man somewhere else. Joe

ARRRRRGGGG!!!! You really don't get it. What makes you think that being a SF soldier is being the low man? First of all a SF NCO in our basic mission requirements actually serves as a company commander, battalion staff officer of above. These a positions filled by officers in the conventional army. Second, rank has absolutely nothing to do with status or worth of the individual-even in the conventional army. Every military occupational specialty has its place. Have you every heard the ditty that goes like this,"For the want of a nail the shoe was lost, for the want of the shoe the horse was lost, for the want of the horse the battle was lost"?

Now lets talk about your perception of officers versus the lowly soldier. There is absolutely no way you will become an effective officer-in any specialty and in particularly as an 18A- with your apparent misconception about the lowly NCO. Your comment, and I hope I am wrong here, comes across as one who thinks that being an officer makes you better than anyone else you outrank and puts you in a special class. You are wrong about the former but you would be right about the latter. You will be in a special class only because the duties you are going to have to perform will often not be fun, they will be difficult because you are going to be the one to make the decision about who lives or dies, your actions if the are wrong will get folks killed, and you will have to fight for everything your team, company, battalion or group needs. An officer is not part of a mutual admiration society but a competitive wolf pack that needs to do everything, often in the shadows, to look to the needs of his men while he accomplishes the mission. You will never have any friends, but you will have many contemporaries and comrades. If you are doing your job correctly you will be looked upon as a loner by your contemporaries and while you may be considered a team player by your superiors they will know deep insider their gut that you will rip out their lungs if they expect something from your team for which they have inadequately prepared you for, improperly resourced you for, or are not willing to stand behind you 100%. Because of this they will either respect you or hate you, but make a mistake that reflects poorly on them and your team will suffer more than you will. No, SF NCOs are not low men, they are folks who have risen to a challenge that few ever have been able to match and cast long shadows in which most officers are unworthy to stand. Still want to be an 18A?

[x SF med]

FutureSoldier-
You really didn't look very hard for SF NCOs that became Officers - there is one that is known to every QP everywhere, winner of the CMH as an SFC (put up for it 3 times), and a truly amazing Officer, the epitome of Special Forces. I'm wondering if I should give you the name or make you search it out.
I'll be nice and give you the name - COL Robert (Bob) Howard - when I knew him a MAJ. Research him, it'll be a great education.

I will reteat from officer country now

[futureSoldier]

Sir,

I certainly do not think of the SF enlisted man as lowly-not at all (hell, a regular Army enlisted man is an admirable human). I was strickly speaking in terms of rank. I am sorry it came off that way-I certainly did not mean to imply that there is anything "low" about men with the professionalism and dedication that I have been reading about. I made a bad choice of words-I should have paid better attention. I am not on an ego trip, I am certainly not out to "prove myself" on a message board-it can't be done. I am just out to find out more about this profession, about the jobs in it, and why every military person I have spoken with (non SF) insists that I find a way to go OCS. I do still think that 18A sounds like a great position, but your advice has given me a great deal to think of regarding it. Your replies seem to confirm that what I need to do is more research and then prepare for whatever path I choose (probably 18x)-and thats it for right now.

Thank you again, you honestly have been very helpful,

Joe

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by futureSoldier

but your advice has given me a great deal to think of regarding it. Your replies seem to confirm that what I need to do is more research

Joe, after you have looked into this a little more and have framed your goals, let's kick it around a little then. But for now, you are right you need to do a little more research. Don't get hung up on what others think you should do, they are not the ones that are going to do it-you are.

[Five-O]

Col M.,
Great advice, insight and mission analysis sir... as usual.

Future soldier,
This is about the only advice I could/would give in this thread. NousDefionsDoc started a thread entitled "Training the Mind"....read it today, tomorrow and monday. Print it out and read it every day.