18C's and Wannabes, Name This Item

[Ambush Master]

My last 2-3 weeks at CCC (Kontum, RVN) I spent de-dudding the range!!! We had a bunker full of 2.75 FFs, that had failed to fire from the Cobras, and a bunch more damaged or otherwise corrupted ordinance. This stuff was everything from 60, 81, 4.2 mortar rounds to 40mm, hand grenades, and damaged ammo.

The Viets were tasked with the disposal, so they loaded up the Deuce & a Half + trailer up with this stuff to get rid of it. The LAST THING they loaded was the C4 and Det-Cord. Of course the FIRST THING off of the vehicles was what was loaded LAST!! They primed the C4, set it on the ground and then ubnloaded the vehicles, stacking all of the above ON TOP OF THE C4!!!

Needless to say, when it went off, it was all scattered over about 10 thousand squre meter area 100m X 100m. Since I was a short timer, opns were slow, I had had a propensity to mess with the demo and I was also qualified as a 12 (Combat Engineer) I was assigned the task of de-dudding!!!

I started off blowing everything in place. Then, after Billy Greenwood told me that I was not going to leave till it was cleared, I started moving anything that had a "Safety Device" still installed. This whole thing turned from being WOW THIS WILL BE FUN..to OH SHIT what have I gotten myself into. All went well and I even recruited a bunch of the Viets to help collect the UXO because they had to stay camped out on the range guarding the stuff until it was all gone.

Still amazed every day, that I ever saw my 23rd birthday!!!

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Ambush Master

They primed the C4, set it on the ground and then ubnloaded the vehicles, stacking all of the above ON TOP OF THE C4!!!

Needless to say, when it went off, it was all scattered over about 10 thousand squre meter area 100m X 100m.

I think my first team sergeant was supervising that disposal, he told me he did something just like that in Vietnam, sent UXO all over the country side.... (Must have been a weapons Sgt.)

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

Originally Posted by MtnGoat

When can you destruction of a UXO munitions?

Combat? Peacetime?

I don't know what the reg says now, but when I used to get all my 18C (12Bs then) together for improvised demo training my basic rule was if you made it and it doesn't go, you blow it. Of course I accompanied them downrange which I think was more embarrassing for them than the razzing that they got from their peers.


AM: The day I took over Ben Het I grabbed my team sergeant and we started to walk the perimeter and went down to check out the Corps 8" and 175mm batteries that were inside outr perimeter for cross border support for you all. As we headed down the grade we saw someone running a firing wire back from this large crater left by 122 rocket fire and before we could find out what was happening they detonated it. Come to find out it was a variety of small arms, 8" and 175mm rounds, and associated UXO which shot a fire ball at least 100 feet high, a smoke column three or four times higher than that and sent a concussion wave strong enought to make an incoming chopper damn near fall out of the sky. UXO, now supersensitized, went everywhere. The only good thing about all of this was that the chopper belonged to the feckless fourth division brigade commander who was ripped. Of course he thought we had done it and wanted us to find every UXO and destroy it-to which I replied in my normal tactful and respectful manner that he could get his own troops to do it. I did volunteer to have my demo guys give his weenies a class on proper disposal of duds-both metallic and two legged.

[MtnGoat]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

I don't know what the reg says now, but when I used to get all my 18C (12Bs then) together for improvised demo training my basic rule was if you made it and it doesn't go, you blow it. Of course I accompanied them downrange which I think was more embarrassing for them than the razzing that they got from their peers.

[QUOTE=SF18C]I’ll take a stab...

18 Series: only in designated hazardous duty operations, in peacetime (and I read that as not in a combat zone) call EOD. Let me know Goat!
QUOTE]

Well by the Reg... it doesn't matter whether your in Combat or in a training environment you must meet certain conditions. The biggest one was you had to be OCONUS. State side you should be calling EOD from the post your on to clear the range. Most Post that SF Groups are on have an EOD Company that they can train with. Hell on Bragg we have a EOD BN now, so there will be four EOD Comanies. The UXO had to be smaller than 120mm and for COL Moroney, the biggest one is you fired it and it duded. You clean it. From the mouth of Mr. Knight; it came from USSF going on MTTs or JECTs and leaving XUOs on a farmers field during the winter. Then he comes back to have a goat or sheep blown up in the summer.

In Combat we don't have EOD TECHs embedded with ODAs, as do the SEAL with their SEAL Platoons. So the 18C is the TECH - clear the way!!

[MtnGoat]

Name the below on this UXO.
1) Type by function of UXOs.
2) Safety Hazards for them.
3) BIP method?
4) How do you Charlie's move thisUXO for Disposal?

[Goat Bandit]

This is the Soviet PMN-2 AP landmine. I'm not an 18C so I'm out of my league here. Because the fuse is blast resistant, I would guess that it requires a special charge to BIP. Something like a shaped charge.

[hotshot]

1) Type by function- Soviet PMN-2 Anti-personnel/Blast Landmine

2) Safety hazards- HE, FRAG, C/S, BT, Movement

3) BIP- I would use a small EFP if it was available, or depending on location/terrain shoot it with the barrett.

4) I would not attempt to move this mine.

[The Reaper]

Since an opinion has already been rendered, as far as moving it goes, I do not think that it was emplaced on that stack of bags, so I suspect that someone has already moved it.

An anti-handling device would appear to be unlikely in that location, but in the ground, I would be highly suspect and would look to BIP.

TR

[hotshot]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Since an opinion has already been rendered, as far as moving it goes, I do not think that it was emplaced on that stack of bags, so I suspect that someone has already moved it.

An anti-handling device would appear to be unlikely in that location, but in the ground, I would be highly suspect and would look to BIP.

TR

Great points, I agree. Although, I would say that moving it would be a job for the locals.

[MtnGoat]

Originally Posted by hotshot

1) Type by function- Soviet PMN-2 Anti-personnel/Blast Landmine

2) Safety hazards- HE, FRAG, C/S, BT, Movement

3) BIP- I would use a small EFP if it was available, or depending on location/terrain shoot it with the barrett.

4) I would not attempt to move this mine.

All above right... good job future Chuck!!

I BIP with C-4 bent into a "C" shape as to bridge the mine over the top, I used more C-4 for some bulk explosive items in the room.

PMNs were placed trying to "trip" us up or local (HN) forces upon entering buildings.

Hotshot - As far as the moving..DON"T!! Its best to BIP everything. If U think or know that munitions or mines has some type of AHD or BT why would U have a local move it?? U have to work within the area and U telling a local to move something to end up with a hand missing or even an arm.... think about your action and the impact they have on your team and the local option. Why make a HN Solider do it, then U have to deal with treating them and MEDEVACing them, usually an hour wait time. Its a double edge sword and a thin line to walk.

No AHD as far as movement on the PMA, but a AHD as far a disarming. once armed you must blow in place. Just like the Yugo PMA (AP Mine), its all in the Fuse.

Since an opinion has already been rendered, as far as moving it goes, I do not think that it was emplaced on that stack of bags, so I suspect that someone has already moved it.

An anti-handling device would appear to be unlikely in that location, but in the ground, I would be highly suspect and would look to BIP.

TR

Very true TR.. They were found in the doorway into a "home", no it wasn't moved it. They were covered by some fabric on top of the bags, another mine was on the other side of the bags and fabrics. As to "catch" someone stepping over the bags. Tricky little bas&^%$!!

[spartanfed182]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

What is this item, specifically, and why is it a very nasty little bugger?

TR

Looks broken, and I follow the rule. "You break it, You bought it."

[SFS0AVN]

Gentlemen,
IF it blows and you were too close, I get to visit with you. Some times I can help but sometimes I can't even find you.
A SF Medic, Sends.

...

[kgoerz]

Originally Posted by Gladan!

Thought I'd add this if you don't mind. I'm by no means an expert on this subject. Being I'm a Police Sergeant out here in the Marshall Islands I'm the first responder to any and all UXO incidents within my AO. I have an outstanding working relationship with EOD and have assisted them with numerous UXO demolition operations.

The pictures you see here were taken on a deserted island within the Kwajalein Atoll. The locals use this island and others like it to hunt on. Occasionally they will come across UXO. The teens you see in the attached photo are the ones who reported this UXO. They were out collecting Coconut Crabs and fishing. For what ever reason, before I arrived the locals never reported UXO sightings. They have been lucky, for in the past 20 years there has only been one UXO related fatality that is known of. A child while camping on an island threw some UXO into a fire and was killed when it detonated.

I have formed a very good relationship with the locals out here and have learned a great deal of their language. Now it seems I can't get them to stop reporting UXO sightings. This is a good thing though! Just a couple weeks ago I accompanied a friend of mine to a remote part of the reef where he came upon seven Japanese Type 97 Land Bombs while he was long-netting.

Anyway, I thought this may be a good addition to this thread for ID purposes. I know what it is. Then again, this is not some “exotic” piece like a few of the others listed in this thread.

If anyone is interested, all the UXO out here are the result of Operation Flintlock during WWII.

Respectfully,

I want to see pictures of all the other WWII Stuff you found
Sounds like a cool job. When I asked the 1st Group guys about souvenir hunting they said it was illegal. I have no idea about the shell in the Picture thou.

[The Reaper]

Looks like a 5"/38 caliber HE shell to me, with a mechanically fused nose.

Could be the Japanese equivalent, or possibly a piece of land based artillery in the 5"-6" class.

TR