Are we at war with Islam?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by MR2

............Good question. I too am interested in GiveRespect's answer.

It begins at Friday prayers - when the clerics begin pushing the jihad line. If the "moderate" Muslims sit there and let it go on and on then they are not "moderates". If they see the old guy talking to young kids and then the kids turn up in Somalia and they don't do something they are not "moderates".

Until they do that they are just inactive jihadies.

While we like to believe in moderate Muslims - remember, to good Muslims they are apostates.

[Dusty]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/10...ntcmp=HPBucket

A Syrian-born Alabama man says he was a Muslim when a brain aneurysm left him in a prolonged coma, but when he surprised doctors with his recovery, it started him on a path to Christianity.

Karim Shamsi-Basha was raised in Syria with parents he says were tolerant of all faiths. His family practiced Islam mostly culturally, but Shamsi-Basha says he was "very serious” about his religion as a teenager. "I prayed five times a day. I walked to the mosque before sunrise. I fasted the month of Ramadan," Shamsi-Basha told the Christian Post.

Weary of Syrian President Bashar Assad’s regime, Shamsi-Basha immigrated to the U.S. when he was 18, to attend the University of Tennessee. After that, he married, had his first son, and moved to Birmingham, Ala. In 1992, he suffered a brain aneurysm that left him in a coma for almost a month.

When he awoke from the coma, his rare, almost total recovery amazed his neurosurgeon, who told Shamsi-Basha he was extremely fortunate and needed to find out why he survived.

That question started Shamsi-Basha on a 20-year journey that he says led him to Jesus Christ. He began reading the Bible and was baptized in 1996, but he says it took another 10 years of challenges -- including a divorce, his father’s death and becoming homeless -- before he fully accepted becoming a Christian.

Shamsi-Basha has documented that odyssey in a new book, “Paul and Me.” It’s part memoir, part philosophy, including various theologians’ thoughts about Paul, one of the Bible’s most central figures, whose own conversion took place in the Syrian city of Damascus.

Snip

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by MR2

Holy Alex Turbek [Trebek?] Batman! What is Edmund Burke.

See, GR, I told ya' one of the Brothers would correct me. Thanks, MR2, I was only 150 years off.

[GiveRespect]

I can identify with this whole “Islam is a beast which wishes to devour the west”, because my European culture experienced it. My southern European country was occupied for about 500 years. The Muslim invaders were fought off for 30 years before we were occupied. I grew listening to stories about our national hero who destroyed the Turks left and right until his death. So I understand this whole WAR with Islam. I don’t think were at war with Islam. I think that’s a very short sighted view. It’s my understanding that the strongest point of Special Forces is your ability to understand, adapt, and then teach the local culture you’re in. So I think it would be unproductive to view people as the enemy JUST because of their religion, tampering successful cooperation between you two. In my opinion young poor uneducated men fight America because they have been so successfully been brainwashed by propaganda. To me if it’s not religion, its nationalism, then family, then personal revenge. I don’t think there is any ONE thing that can demise the power of the Taliban. However blaming 1 billion people and demonizing them as traitors isn’t going to help. I’ve never read storied of Harvard educated Muslims fighting for the Taliban. I could be wrong on that please correct me. But I have read about very educated Muslim soldiers fighting and dying in the US military against the Taliban. Infect I’ve read about it on this website. I wouldn’t say we are at war with Islam. But with an international terror group that happens to Islam as propaganda. What if tomorrow a Christian group blows up 5 mosques in Germany, telling the world they have god on their side? What if that christen group blew up a parliament building because it’s not Christian enough citing versus from the bible? What if this international group made up of different nationalities released a tape saying until Europe becomes a center of Christ again, they will continue to attack. IS Europe at war with Christianity or this group? That’s my view, I could be wrong but I’m posting to learn from all of you.

-----GOD BLESS AMEICA AND ITS TROOPS
-----FLOYD MAYWEATHER BEST P4P ON THE PLANET
-----GIVE RESPECT OUT

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect

What if tomorrow a Christian group blows up 5 mosques in Germany, telling the world they have god on their side? What if that christen group blew up a parliament building because it’s not Christian enough citing versus from the bible? What if this international group made up of different nationalities released a tape saying until Europe becomes a center of Christ again, they will continue to attack.

When was the last time that happened?

The difference is that Christians have not done this to muslim civilians in many years, and muslims are doing it to the rest of the world every day.

Christians and Jews are being persecuted, churches burned, women raped, and children murdered 365 days a year, all in the name of islam.

Where is the accountability?

Are we not all people of the book? When did muslims decide that Christians and Jews were sheep to be slaughtered? Or has this always been the policy?

Did you miss the news from Kenya? This is becoming a global religious war. At least by large numbers of muslims.

And BTW, OBL himself was from a well-eductated, wealthy family. It isn't just the poor and uneducated who are committing the heinous crimes.

I think we need to be Americans first, and members of a religion after that.

TR

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect

What if tomorrow a Christian group blows up 5 mosques in Germany

I hate to say it, but I am to the point where I would probably go have a beer in celebration.

[Oldrotorhead]

GR,

What is 5% of a billion people? If Muslims don't control or inform on these "radicals" so they can be controlled then the consequences of what happen to the Muslim world fall on the Muslims no matter who they are or what they think.
Will you inform on a Imam that advocates attacks on Christians or Jews? How many in your Mosque or community will fight against them openly. I think if Muslims don't police their own someone else will.

I don't hate all Muslims several I consider friends. One Muslim woman was a guest in our house on Saturday, and I have knowingly had a Muslim friend that was armed behind my back, and was not worried. They are both upset with the idiots, but have taken no action to stop those idiots. A lot if Islam's future is in your hands, but it will not stay in your hands if these attacks continue.

[PRB]

Islam is at war with any other religion/creed....it always has been, it is not a 'moderate' religion by design.
All of the individuals that are killing Christians/rape marriage/burning church's in predominately Islamic countries do not fit the 'terrorist' profile.
They are often folks whipped up by a local Imam that live in that community.
The Police/military that stand by and observe are not 'terrorists'.
The Government officials that enact anti Christian laws (burned Church's may not be rebuilt without Govt. permission etc.) are not terrorists.
They are simply Muslims/Islam in the majority.....this is what you can expect in any majority Islamic State.

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl..._exodus-091513

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/07/wo...ians.html?_r=0

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ay-silent.html

[GiveRespect]

When was the last time that happened?
The difference is that Christians have not done this to Muslim civilians in many years, and Muslims are doing it to the rest of the world every day.”
No offense but I think you didn’t fully comprehend what I was trying to say , maybe I said it wrong ,but I don’t know how to rewrite my last post again .

“Where is the accountability?”
I mentioned that there needs to be more accountability. So I agree with you

“Are we not all people of the book? When did Muslims decide that Christians and Jews were sheep to be slaughtered? Or has this always been the policy?”
Muslims haven’t decided anything in regards to terrorism. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda’s leadership decides for its local population what goes on and how to treat other people. In fact didn’t Al-Qaeda spring out of the mujahedeen? Weren’t they the pro American capitals loving Muslims we supported. Didn’t we teach them to kill the soviets? Didn’t the corrupt men out of that origination such as UBL take advantage of a war torn poor nation and create a terrorist organization. ITS funny how afghan Muslims during the cold war were the good guys. But now since they spiraled out of control ALL Muslims are bad. It’s not a group which prosecutes its own people to keep them scared for their lives BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that hides in Mosques and Hospitals and schools BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that puts acid on little Muslim girls trying to get to school. BUT ALL MUSLIMS. Its not a group that decided to hijack a 2 planes and commit one of the worst American tragedies BUT ALL MUSLIMS even the ones that died that day.
“I think we need to be Americans first, and members of a religion after that.”
I agree with you 110 percent .

“I hate to say it, but I am to the point where I would probably go have a beer in celebration.”
That’s the attitude Nazis had about synagogues, that’s the Attitude Al-Qaeda and its followers had about 9-11. AM I calling you a Nazi or a terrorist? Of course not. But the moment you think like them, is the moment they beat you .

“What is 5% of a billion people? If Muslims don't control or inform on these "radicals" so they can be controlled then the consequences of what happen to the Muslim world fall on the Muslims no matter who they are or what they think“Will you inform on a Imam that advocates attacks on Christians or Jews? How many in your Mosque or community will fight against them openly. I think if Muslims don't police their own someone else will. “In my community that would never happen. An imam talking that nonsense has the grounds of him getting permanently replaced and look like the “village idiot”. However to answer your question yes I would. I would report him and I think have explained how the Muslim community needs to take more action.

[PSM]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect

I think have explained how the Muslim community needs to take more action.

And you are trying to convince them how, exactly? Is there a Q&A after prayers? Is there a suggestion box at the door of the mosque? Have you stood up in your community and challenged them to take action? If not, are you willing to?

Pat

[Paslode]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect

“I hate to say it, but I am to the point where I would probably go have a beer in celebration.”
That’s the attitude Nazis had about synagogues, that’s the Attitude Al-Qaeda and its followers had about 9-11. AM I calling you a Nazi or a terrorist? Of course not. But the moment you think like them, is the moment they beat you .

I don't believe the Jews were running around Europe raping women, burning up churches, destroying malls, beheading non-Jews, all of which is the cornucopia terror we know as Islam aka the Religion of Peace.

However like the Religion of Peace, the Nazi's and the Japanese ran around the globe raping women, burning up churches, destroying cities, slaughtering millions and singling out groups like the Jews for slaughter.


So to put this in to context......you are saying the folks celebrating V-J Day and V-E Day had the same attitude as the Nazi's and AQI???

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect

When was the last time that happened?
The difference is that Christians have not done this to Muslim civilians in many years, and Muslims are doing it to the rest of the world every day.”
No offense but I think you didn’t fully comprehend what I was trying to say , maybe I said it wrong ,but I don’t know how to rewrite my last post again .

“Where is the accountability?”
I mentioned that there needs to be more accountability. So I agree with you

“Are we not all people of the book? When did Muslims decide that Christians and Jews were sheep to be slaughtered? Or has this always been the policy?”
Muslims haven’t decided anything in regards to terrorism. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda’s leadership decides for its local population what goes on and how to treat other people. In fact didn’t Al-Qaeda spring out of the mujahedeen? Weren’t they the pro American capitals loving Muslims we supported. Didn’t we teach them to kill the soviets? Didn’t the corrupt men out of that origination such as UBL take advantage of a war torn poor nation and create a terrorist organization. ITS funny how afghan Muslims during the cold war were the good guys. But now since they spiraled out of control ALL Muslims are bad. It’s not a group which prosecutes its own people to keep them scared for their lives BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that hides in Mosques and Hospitals and schools BUT ALL Muslims. It’s not a group that puts acid on little Muslim girls trying to get to school. BUT ALL MUSLIMS. Its not a group that decided to hijack a 2 planes and commit one of the worst American tragedies BUT ALL MUSLIMS even the ones that died that day.
“I think we need to be Americans first, and members of a religion after that.”
I agree with you 110 percent .

“I hate to say it, but I am to the point where I would probably go have a beer in celebration.”
That’s the attitude Nazis had about synagogues, that’s the Attitude Al-Qaeda and its followers had about 9-11. AM I calling you a Nazi or a terrorist? Of course not. But the moment you think like them, is the moment they beat you .

“What is 5% of a billion people? If Muslims don't control or inform on these "radicals" so they can be controlled then the consequences of what happen to the Muslim world fall on the Muslims no matter who they are or what they think“Will you inform on a Imam that advocates attacks on Christians or Jews? How many in your Mosque or community will fight against them openly. I think if Muslims don't police their own someone else will. “In my community that would never happen. An imam talking that nonsense has the grounds of him getting permanently replaced and look like the “village idiot”. However to answer your question yes I would. I would report him and I think have explained how the Muslim community needs to take more action.

Very good response, GR I think TR hit the nail on the head - we are all children of God (however you define it) and crimes against humanity that are perpetrated in the name of any religion, state, race, group, or cult are, in the end, still crimes against humanity.

"In all things there is an unequal portion of good and evil, the trick is to calculate the ratio and act accordingly" [Jester].

De Oppresso Liber!

[PRB]

GR,
Answer my query...why do average Muslims within Islamic countries participate in or stand by while their Christian neighbors are killed, raped or burned out.
This is happening in Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Sudan etc. etc. It cannot happen in Saudi Arabia because they won't even allow Christians to wear a cross, bring a Bible into the Country....they asked our Chaplains (while we were defending their Country) to remove any non Islamic symbols.
You live in the US, Muslims are a slim minority, go to an Islamic Country and see how Christians are treated.
This persecution of Christians has been going on for a very long time.
Don't give me 'People of the Book' stuff either...that early Meccan period stuff was abrogated and you know it.

[PRB]

All Muslims are not terrorists and all Muslims do not practice aggressive Islam.
Islam is flawed in that Muhammad is 'worshipped' if not directly but in 'fact'.
He is the most perfect human being and to be emulated.....and from this the terrorists spring as Muhammad by his own definition was a terrorist.

Why was every female soldier PW sexually abused? Why not, Muhammad said 'what you take with your right hand'.....and those taken in battle are 'property'...he did it, he condoned it and gave female slaves as booty to his followers.
Taken in an ancient context this was the norm....but in Islam Muhammad is the perfect man and what he did is not taken in any historical context....Al Azhar University and the Imams in SA continually issue Fatwa's based upon what M did then that is applicable now......there is no 'well, that was the attitude long ago, we've 'evolved'.
Raiding the Caravans still takes place today as does mutilation under sharia law....why were many of the victims in Kenya mutilated....sharia allows for mutilation of criminals and enemies.
People of the Book........not my book.

[MR2]

Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the government officials committing it -- Kurt Hofmann.