Are we at war with Islam?

[glebo]

GR, were you born into the Muslim faith, or did you change faiths?? What is it about the Koran, and the Muslim faith that you find alluring or the need to follow??

Just curious..

[Pete]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect

I'm a Muslim. Am I an enemy? ........

Do you believe that the Koran is the true word of Allah?

Do you believe that everything in the Koran is true and you must follow it?

Do you believe in abrogation as it applies to the verses in the Koran?

Are you a good Muslim or are you an apostate?

Only you can answer those questions and therein you find your own answer.

[Trapper John]

GR- I admire and respect immensely the personal aspirations and values that you display in your post.

Let me just get this out there - you are not a true Muslim nor are you following Islam and you are certainly not the enemy. As my Brothers queried, you need to answer some fundamental questions about your choice to follow Islam which by the way you are not following if in fact your words are reflecting your true beliefs and if in fact your actions are consistent with those beliefs.

One more thing - It took a lot of courage on your part to make that post here. That is an SF trait. OK, it wasn't one more thing. Also, take a look at the references posted on this thread about the al Sira. Look at what Muhammad did as a reflection of his true motives and true values. Then ask yourself some questions - Is this a prophet of God? Do I want to emulate this person's values in my life? Is Islam really a religion?

You are asking the right questions in your post and I suspect that you have the motivation and moral courage to continue your quest. I also suspect that you have just found many guides to assist you along the way - count me among them.

[Paragrouper]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect

I'm a Muslim.

So what?

Will some view your religious beliefs with suspicion? Yes. within SF you can find people that view others religious beliefs, or lack thereof, suspicious. Why should you be any different. We are a diverse, outspoken group--thin skins need not apply.

If you think it will be a problem it will be a problem and the problem will be you. So please cease the whining about all the PT and reading you've done and how that might have been wasted time. That's just a piss poor attitude.

[Abu Jack]

GR,

I recently had a colleague who grew up in Iran and left at the age of 18, came to the US, got an education joined the army and is currently a LTC. He brought an incredible amount of knowledge on Islam, Iran, Persia and a host of other middle east subjects to the team we worked together on. In his own words he was a bad Shia. He likes the alcohol. He is a great american and I have no doubt about where his loyalties lie. How about you?

Here is the oath of enlistment you'll take if you join:

(a) Enlistment Oath.— Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:
"I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Now my question is will you take this oath with out any reservation? Do you believe Sharia Law should replace the Constitution?

Obviously we don't want another Hasan. I'm sure he took the same Oath when he enlisted and I'm sure he took his Oath when he was promoted to Major.

You have to decide for yourself.

[PRB]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect

I'm a Muslim. Am I an enemy? Should I even consider going to the military now. Will I go and disrupt unit morale? Am I a threat to this nation? I’ve been reading all the posts and I feel like everything I did up to this point was a waste. All the pushups, pull-ups, running, swimming, and reading. All the very basic things I did to ensure my success, is it now gone? All this time on this website was it for nothing? Until tonight I was dead sure that I needed to fight for my country and defend the constitution and NOT sharia bullshit law. I wanted to help free the oppressed .I wanted to be something bigger than I was. If my name was forever wiped for the "sands of time” but I helped overthrow the unjust it would have been fine to me. I feel like I could never be truly accepted because of my religion now. I feel so nothing right now. But anyway regardless, still thank all of you for serving this nation. Truly I don’t mean that in any sarcastic way. You brave men inspired me and thank you. But now I have some thinking to do. God bless America, its troops, and its allies.

Only if you follow Islam as it is written will you be an enemy.
If you believe Muhammad to be the perfect man and his actions valid today as they were long ago, to be emulated in all things, then you would be an enemy.
If you believe that Islam, as a religion and political construct must reign supreme...as it is written, then you will be an enemy of anyone that wants to retain their form of Western Govt.
Islam is not a passive religion designed to co exist with other forms of Govt.
I've always understood, from reading the Koran, Hadith, Sira that a 'true' Muslim will always seek to have Islam as not only the Religion of the land but the arbiter of local law.
It is not, as written and practiced by Muhammad, a separate issue.
I have found that military personnel that call themselves Muslim cherry pick the Religion and ignore much of its tenets. They can be good soldiers.
To many ME Muslims they would really call these US soldier 's Takfir.

[bluebb]

Originally Posted by GiveRespect View Post
I'm a Muslim.

I am an American....how bout we start there?

Then we can move on to this...

I am an American Soldier.

I am a warrior and a member of a team.

I serve the people of the United States, and live the Army Values.

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.

I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.

I am an expert and I am a professional.

I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.

I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American Soldier.


And if you work real hard you can then graduate to this...


I am an American Special Forces soldier. A professional!

I will do all that my nation requires of me.

I am a volunteer, knowing well the hazards of my profession.

I serve with the memory of those who have gone before me:

Roger's Rangers, Francis Marion, Mosby's Rangers,

the first Special Service Forces and Ranger Battalions

of World War II, the Airborne Ranger Companies of Korea.

I pledge to uphold the honor and integrity

of all I am - in all I do.

I am a professional soldier.

I will teach and fight wherever my nation requires.

I will strive always, to excel in every art and artifice of war.

I know that I will be called upon to perform tasks

in isolation, far from familiar faces and voices,

with the help and guidance of my God.

I will keep my mind and body clean, alert and strong,

for this is my debt to those who depend upon me.

I will not fail those with whom I serve.

I will not bring shame upon myself or the forces.

I will maintain myself, my arms, and my equipment

in an immaculate state as befits a Special Forces soldier.

I will never surrender though I be the last.

If I am taken, I pray that I may have the strength

to spit upon my enemy.

My goal is to succeed in any mission

- and live to succeed again.

I am a member of my nation's chosen soldiery.

God grant that I may not be found wanting,

that I will not fail this sacred trust.

"De Oppresso Liber"

but it all starts with "I am an American"

Any questions

[Justinmd]

I'll throw this in: Our fallen SF brother Ayman Taha, google his name.
Justin

[PRB]

Originally Posted by Justinmd

I'll throw this in: Our fallen SF brother Ayman Taha, google his name.
Justin

RIP Brother,
I stand by everything I said prior. I only comment on what is written in and about Islam by its practitioners...

[98G]

Originally Posted by Justinmd

I'll throw this in: Our fallen SF brother Ayman Taha, google his name.
Justin

Serving Was Soldier's Mission
Sudan Native Killed in Iraq Did 'Good Deeds' By Martin Weil
Courtesy of the Washington Post, Wednesday, January 4, 2006

Ayman Taha, a Berkeley graduate who was described as athletic, a speaker of many languages, and a friend to all who met him, had only to write his dissertation to earn his PhD, his father said.

But three years ago, Taha, a budding economist and the son of a Northern Virginia couple, Abdel-Rahman and Amal Taha, joined the Army to serve in the Special Forces. About a year ago, he was sent to Iraq.

On Friday, as Staff Sergeant Ayman Taha, 31, was preparing a cache of munitions for demolition in the town of Balad, the explosives detonated and he was killed, the Pentagon said yesterday. It is "a very terrible thing," Abdel-Rahman Taha said. "He was a son, and a very special son."

The father added: "If you believe in God and you realize that this is God's will . . . it makes it a lot easier." There is also consolation, the father said, in feeling that "this is something Ayman wanted to do." A family friend, Nada Eissa, agreed. "No, he didn't have to do it," she said. "This is something he wanted to do."

Ayman Taha was born in Sudan, into an academically accomplished international family. Both parents hold doctorates. When his father worked for the World Bank, Ayman attended elementary school in McLean. He went to secondary school in England, then received a bachelor's degree from the University of California at Berkeley and a master's in economics from the University of Massachusetts, where he was working toward a PhD. "He lived in many cultures," his father said, and spoke English, Arabic, Spanish and Portuguese. More important, his father said, were his personality and character.

"If he has a five-minute conversation with you, that would be the beginning of a lifetime relationship," the father said. "I never heard anybody who ever complained that Ayman did something wrong to him. "He was just that type of character," the father said.

About three years ago, Ayman Taha told his father, "Dad, I have been going to school since I was 5 years old. I want to take a break." The father said he suggested that his son "try something in the World Bank . . . or Merrill Lynch." But one day, "out of the blue," his son told him that he had signed the papers that would take him into the Special Forces. He said his son was "definitely" patriotic and believed "in the mission."

"He strongly agreed that what they were doing is good and that they were helping people in the Middle East to get out of the . . . historic bottleneck" that had confined them. Since boyhood, those who knew him recalled, Ayman Taha had taken an interest in military matters, which showed itself in the books he read and the toys he played with.

Joining the Special Forces was "something he felt compelled to do," said a friend, Hisham Eissa, who lives in Los Angeles and is Nada Eissa's brother. In economics, Taha's interest was in development. "He felt very strongly about making a difference," and "I think he felt that people like him" were needed for it, Eissa said. "Everyone whose life he touched loved this guy," Hisham Eissa said. "There isn't a single person who knew him who isn't torn up about this."

The Pentagon said Taha was assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 5th Special Forces Group, based at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. His wife, Geraldine, and child Sommer live near the base. One sister, Rabah, is a special education teacher in Fairfax County, and another, Lubna, attends Marymount University.

His father said Taha was a devout Muslim who believed that "the message of Islam is very simple . . . to believe in God and do good deeds."

What you see on this board are soldiers frustrated with a violent, oppressive fundamentalist Islamic movement and they take is seriously enough to not just blindly hate it but to study Islam to understand it and find the root cause of such virulence.

Christianity (the Bible) could not stand up to such scrutiny, unscathed. However, Fundamentalist Christians who take one passage to an extreme or preach violence are are not a serious threat and are openly marginalized by a vast majority of Christians.

With most Muslims neither vocal nor violent, the radical minority becomes your voice and action. Fair or not, that is the conclusion drawn. That you wish to serve and do not adhere to -- or agree with -- Sharia law, says you do not follow your religion blindly and are willing to defend us from people who do.

IMHO, you do have a decision to make of what you value of your own integrity most. You never have to give up your religion, but you do have to honor the oath you make as an American soldier. [See bluebb post.] It cannot be compromised for any religious or secular belief. Hasan lied in his oath. That set up his actions as a murderer. Look at PFC Manning. He is a convicted traitor. He compromised his oath for a personal, secular belief. Can you take the oath and keep it -- no matter what? We give up much of our own freedoms in our time as soldiers. But what we gain, within ourselves and our units, and for our country, is immeasurable.

[Hacksaw]

There is always the exception to the rule, take Zudi Jasser (not sure on spelling) as an example; muslim, former Naval officer, activist against islamic extremists (not a term I prefer but will use for brevity). Is this a guy that will attack a group of unarmed soldiers? Not very damn likely. But he is an apostate, despised by most members of his own faith.

I never cared about someone's religion when I was on active duty. I spent most of my time in Latin America, almost entirely Christian and mostly Catholic (which I am), the conflicts there were/are mostly political or drug infused political. I did not know anything about islam until I went to Iraq in 2004 and worked with the Emergency Response Unit (ERU) of the Iraqi Police. That is when we (myself and my fellow former 7th SFG guys) discovered that training these guys was vastly different than our Latin American cousins. From that point I have spent most of my reading time dedicated to Islam. I'm not going to go into my typical rant here since it involves typing and it was no accident that I was an 18B. I have become convinced that we should be at war with islam, it is contrary to our way of life, the foundation of our country and western civilization. Islam has been at war with us since the 620's AD....by us I mean everyone that is not muslim.

Anyone can point to other religions and find horrible acts commited in the name of God, God's, fairies, whatever. However, There is nothing in Christianity, Judaism, Buddism or any other religion I know of (keep in mind, I was a Bravo) that compels its followers to strive towards violently destroying other religions.

I apologize for being verbous, so I'll wrap this up quickly; do not believe what I say, or CAIR, or Robert Spencer, or George Bush...get a koran, a Reliance of the Traveler, politically incorrect guide to islam, Because They Hate, etc, and read it. As Special Forces soldiers it our responsibility to understand our enemy, otherwise the tab would read REGULAR FORCES. To the muslims in our military and our country; you too need to understand your religion, if you can still say you are commited to the American concept of freedom of religion then great, I just don't understand how it's possible from what I've read and observed.

[Trapper John]

Well said all! But, GiveRespect, these reply's were directed to you and we have not heard a response from you since your second post. I am truly interested in what you think? My guess is, so are the others that have posted here. What say you, GR?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

Well said all! But, GiveRespect, these reply's were directed to you and we have not heard a response from you since your second post. I am truly interested in what you think? My guess is, so are the others that have posted here. What say you, GR?

GR has not been back to the board since 26 Aug.

You must have scared him off.

TR

[Trapper John]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

GR has not been back to the board since 26 Aug.

You must have scared him off.

TR

I sent him a PM this morning. Jeeez, if I scared him off, I'm sure glad he didn't run into Dusty.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Trapper John

I sent him a PM this morning. Jeeez, if I scared him off, I'm sure glad he didn't run into Dusty.

Where's he gonna run into me at...the mosque?