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Old 07-17-2009, 06:48   #1111
sg1987
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so...I'm wondering....what kind of Nazi recruiting took place in CONUS during WWII?

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Islamic Supremacist Group Holds First U.S. Conference

A group committed to establishing an international Islamic empire and reportedly linked to Al Qaeda is stepping up its Western recruitment efforts by holding its first official conference in the U.S.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,533525,00.html
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Old 07-17-2009, 07:17   #1112
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The Bunds?

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Originally Posted by sg1987 View Post
so...I'm wondering....what kind of Nazi recruiting took place in CONUS during WWII?.....
I done have it at my fingertips but I believe it/they were called Bunds(sp?). Chapters were quite active in northern US cities, and other countries prior to the US going into the war on the side of the Allies. They recruited people of Germanic origin to go back and fight for the fatherland.

There were a number of SS Divisions with a western origin or flavor.
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Old 07-17-2009, 07:29   #1113
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so...I'm wondering....what kind of Nazi recruiting took place in CONUS during WWII?
Yep - many Americans - including Charles Lindbergh - were enamored with and openly supportive of the ideas of National Socialism...and Eugenics.

Richard's $.02

Quote:
Americans for Hitler: On the eve of World War II, the German American Bund insisted the Nazi salute was as American as apple pie.
Mark D. Van Ells, WWll Magazine, Aug 2007

Jesus Christ and Adolf Hitler. Only a Nazi would have dared to compare. “Hitler is the friend of Germans everywhere,” one girl in a Nazi youth camp remembered being told, “and just as Christ wanted little children to come to him, Hitler wants German children to revere him.” The comment may hardly sound shocking, considering the Nazi mindset, but the girl who heard it wasn’t in Düsseldorf or Stuttgart or Berlin. She was in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. In the heartland of America, American children were being indoctrinated into Nazism as the Nazis prepared to take over Europe.

The youth camps were run by an organization of German immigrants in the United States to cultivate a loyal Nazi following in their adopted homeland. All but forgotten today, the group known as the German American Bund (bund is German for “alliance”) was one of the most controversial political groups of the politically uncertain 1930s. Nazi ideology taught that all Germans were united by blood and that the descendants of German emigrants around the world needed to be awakened to their racial duties in support of Hitler. The United States, 25 percent of whose population traced ancestry back to Germany, was a tempting target for Nazi recruiters. Forty-three percent of the population of Wisconsin, a state noted for its beer and bratwurst, was either German-born or first-generation German American in 1939. Nazis believed those German Americans could be awakened to their cause.

(cont'd) http://www.americainwwii.com/stories...forhitler.html

Mark D. Van Ells is a professor of history at the City University of New York. This article originally appeared in the August 2007 issue of America in WWII.
Here's an interesting CalState-Northridge exhibition on the GABund in Southern California:

http://digital-library.csun.edu/back...can-bund1.html
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GABundFlag.jpg (48.4 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg GABundMtng.jpg (78.9 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg German-American-Bund-Rally-1939.jpg (28.4 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg GABundParade.jpg (47.2 KB, 28 views)
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:48   #1114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
I done have it at my fingertips but I believe it/they were called Bunds(sp?). Chapters were quite active in northern US cities, and other countries prior to the US going into the war on the side of the Allies. They recruited people of Germanic origin to go back and fight for the fatherland.

There were a number of SS Divisions with a western origin or flavor.
You've stirred my interest just a little so I'll have to do some research on the subject. I have read before that a number of American citizens returned to the Fatherland before or during WW II and fought on their side. One story in particular that I remember reading was about a couple of Americans who died during the battle of Stalingrad. That titanic struggle along with the battle of Kursk are of great historical interest to me.
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Old 07-17-2009, 09:59   #1115
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Here is the link to the terrorist conference at the Hilton hotel on the 19th

http://www.investigativeproject.org/...chicago-suburb
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:10   #1116
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Yep - many Americans - including Charles Lindbergh - were enamored with and openly supportive of the ideas of National Socialism...and Eugenics.

Richard's $.02
Up until the U.S. became actively involved in WWII, there were many National Socialist programs being considered for adoption by our government. Hell, the PA Turnpike is modeled after the Autobahn, but Federal and State politics screwed that up so bad, its in no way comparable to the Autobahn today.

Ive also seen the term Radical Islamic Nazi or the combination being used on this thread. That is in no way a far fetched idea. Here is a good primer for your enlightenment:

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/ This features Amin Al Husseini, the reputed "Nazi Father of Jihad". If this has been posted previousely I apologize, I did try to find reference to this article using the ever friendly search option.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:14   #1117
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There were a number of SS Divisions with a western origin or flavor.
And many of these troops used captured American uniforms and materiel and infiltrated the American lines:

THE ENEMY BEHIND OUR LINES
1. First US Army Traffic Control Section reports that
German soldiers in US uniforms are operating in the Army area
in a 1/4 ton Jeep, number 20504455, bumper marking MP
ASCZ C-5.
2. All AGO cards found on Germans in US uniforms
have, on the left hand fold, the inscription:
“W.D. A.G.O. Form No. 65.4.”
The cards also differ slightly from the one normally
carried by officers which is: W.D. A.G.O. Form No. 65-1, in
that in addition to the bearers signature, it is also countersigned
just below the signature of Officer. The AGO cards are brand
new, filled out by the German himself, signed by him, and then
dirtied up a bit – but the creases in the card can usually be
spotted as new.
3. Germans in the “Jeep parties” of Einheit STIELAU
have been instructed that the proper way to identify themselves
behind the American lines is to show their Soldier’s Paybook –
not a word about dog-tags. So far, of the men captured, only
two carried dog-tags with them, and they picked them up on
their own initiatives.. The Paybooks given them are taken from
our own P/Ws.
4. There are four grades of English speakers among
the STIELAU personnel – Group I is the best. The German
Officer is usually Group II which explains why he acts as a GI
and not as an American Officer. The best speaker acts as an
officer and sits beside the driver. The German officer sits
(normally) on the left rear and whispers instructions in the ear of
the German soldier posing as one of our officers. The worst
English speaker (usually Group III or Group IV) i s always the
driver. Therefore, the best way to trap these “Jeep Parties” is to
ask the driver for his trip ticket, and then ask the driver some
questions which he will have to answer.
5. None of the captured Germans in GI uniforms have
known their so-called serial number.
6. Jeep markings already identified on vehicles
carrying enemy personnel include VIII Corps, 8th Armored Div
– but in most cases 5th Armored Div. For some obscure reason,
the number of the Jeep (on the right hand side) is considered a
weak point by the Germans and is usually half obliterated with
mud.
7. All staff cars used by Germans captured so far
have been French Citroens – painted OD, complete with star.
However, reports have been received of Germans in civilian
sedans. Staff cars definitely should be stopped and our MP’s
must forget all rank when they ask for dog tags, ASN, etc.
Some of these GI-clad Germans are posing as high-ranking
officers. Rumor has it that von BEHR, one of the leaders of the
group, will be posing as a Brigadier General.
8 It must not be forgotten that these “Jeep parties” are
heavily armed and that the men realize that they are on a
desperate mission. Keep all suspicious Jeeps and their
occupants well covered while inspecting credentials.
9. It is reported that some members of the “Jeep
parties” have now exchanged their 1/4 tons for 3/4 ton trucks.
10. Most recent method of long-distance identification,
reported by captured” Jeep Parties,” is the holding of a rifle in
both hands, raising 2 ??? Above head and moving rifle up and
down.. Lights of various colors may now be used – or
combinations of colors – as permitted by the German Army
issue flashlight.
11. Greater scrutiny of all vehicles obtaining gas from
units and supply installations is required. These Jeeps are now
operating on gasoline they are obtaining from US Army sources.
One “Jeep Party” was captured recently at an Ordnance
Maintenance unit where they took the vehicle for repair.
Source: First US Army G-2 Periodic Report No. 199, 26 Dec 1944,
as reported in Third US Army G-2 periodic Report No. 203 dated 31 Dec 44,
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:16   #1118
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For example, Section 1182 of the United States Code allows consular officers or the attorney general to bar from the United States "any alien who endorses or espouses terrorist activity or support of a terrorist organization." That section also provides that "Any alien whose entry or proposed activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States is inadmissible."
Maybe we need to do a better job of enforcing code.
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:37   #1119
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There were a number of SS Divisions with a western origin or flavor.
The SS recruited from throughout the west (and amongst others) for their Freiwilligen (foreign volunteers) legions in their proclaimed "fight against bolshevism."

These volunteers wore a national shield on their left sleeve below the SS eagle and came from the UK (a battalion which wore a Union Jack sleeve shield), Croatia (including Bosnian Muslims - 13th SS Mountain Div which wore a dark red fez for dress uniform and a field gray one in the mountains of the Balkans), Galicia, Latvia, Lithuania, Albania, Hungary, Belgium, Russia, Italy, France, Denmark, Norway, Holland, India, and amongst the Cossacks of Eastern Europe.

I have never run across any information on any American SS participation.

The Bender/Taylor books (I have most of them) and a series put out by the Imperial War Museum are some of the most authoritative (if you can find them) as is the book put out by the former members of the Waffen SS themselves - Wenn alle Bruder schweigen - which I picked up when stationed in Bad Tolz.

An interesting subject for study.

Richard's $.02
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Old 07-17-2009, 10:38   #1120
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Originally Posted by 7624U View Post
Here is the link to the terrorist conference at the Hilton hotel on the 19th

http://www.investigativeproject.org/...chicago-suburb
Quote:
But in the past the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (the federal agency chiefly responsible for stopping foreign supporters of extremist groups from entering the United States) has been asleep at the switch when it comes to HT. In 2007, Hizb ut-Tahrir had a booth right next to the Department of Homeland Security at a conference sponsored by the Islamic Society of North America – a Muslim Brotherhood-linked organization that was an unindicted co-conspirator in the federal government's successful prosecution of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development.
Quote:
Section 1182 of the United States Code allows consular officers or the attorney general to bar from the United States "any alien who endorses or espouses terrorist activity or support of a terrorist organization." That section also provides that "Any alien whose entry or proposed activities in the United States the Secretary of State has reasonable ground to believe would have potentially serious adverse foreign policy consequences for the United States is inadmissible."

I realize CITIZENS are protected with the 1st Amendment....are any of the people that lead, speak, and participate in this conference (and past ones) American Citizens? If they are NOT citizens, they are NOT protected! If they are advocating the overthrow of our goverment and terrorism, THROW THEM OUT! When are we going to finally say "enough is enough". I am tired of hearing, "we should try to understand their culture and religion". Well, what about OUR culture and OUR religion? When did our worth as American citizens, our culture and our beliefs get thrown under the bus??!! Why is this sort of thing allowed? Why is DHS a sleep at the wheel?
Sorry...rant over!!
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Old 03-07-2010, 16:40   #1121
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Originally Posted by abc_123 View Post
Sure sounds like this guy doesn't hold out much hope of the muslim world spontaneously living peacefully besides other religions...

not sure if this belongs here or wherever... mods pls move if misplaced


Son of Hamas Leader Turns Back on Islam and Embraces Christianity
Tuesday, August 12, 2008

By Jonathan Hunt
CNN just discovered "son of Hamas." Great story. I predict a spike in book sales.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/...spy/index.html
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Old 03-13-2010, 14:42   #1122
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Originally Posted by redleg99
Something to consider is that Reliance of the Traveller is a manual of Shafi'i school jurisprudence.
Since Shafi'i comprise less than 30% of all Muslims* it might be a mistake to assume all Muslims, or even all Shafi'i for that matter, truly believe what it says.
Sunni make up roughly 80-90% of all Moslems.
Another point to consider is that old literature from Al-Azhar University pre-dates Saudi oil money (wahhabi influence), and Al-Azhar University is the oldest of all universities in the Moslem world. It was established in 971 A.D. by the Fatimid (Shiite) dynasty. The Reliance of the Traveller was written in the 14th century, was [is] praised by Sunni & Shia alike, and it carries the endorsement of Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam - just a thought…
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Old 03-13-2010, 19:28   #1123
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Originally Posted by T-Rock View Post
Sunni make up roughly 80-90% of all Moslems.
Another point to consider is that old literature from Al-Azhar University pre-dates Saudi oil money (wahhabi influence), and Al-Azhar University is the oldest of all universities in the Moslem world. It was established in 971 A.D. by the Fatimid (Shiite) dynasty. The Reliance of the Traveller was written in the 14th century, was [is] praised by Sunni & Shia alike, and it carries the endorsement of Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam - just a thought…
And IIRC it notes in the introduction that 75-80% of Sunni Islamic Jurisprudence is identical... T-Rock can find the exact quote... my copy is packed up with the move right now...
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Old 03-13-2010, 20:54   #1124
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Speaking after the September 11, 2001 attacks, Al-Azhar University head Sheikh Mohammed Sayyid Tantawi Tantawy said, "It's not courage in any way to kill an innocent person, or to kill thousands of people, including men and women and children." He also said that Osama bin Laden's call for a Jihad against the west was "invalid and not binding on Muslims", adding "Killing innocent civilians is a horrific, hideous act that no religion can approve". He said the Qur'an "specifically forbids the kinds of things the Taliban and al-Qaida are guilty of".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1544955.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...d-Tantawi.html

But we remain at war with somebody...and so it goes...

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Old 03-14-2010, 01:40   #1125
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As defined by Islamic Law, who are innocent - Harbi women and children?

Quote:
Speaking after the September 11, 2001 attacks, Al-Azhar University head Sheikh Mohammed Sayyid Tantawi Tantawy said, "It's not courage in any way to kill an innocent person, or to kill thousands of people, including men and women and children." He also said that Osama bin Laden's call for a Jihad against the west was "invalid and not binding on Muslims", adding "Killing innocent civilians is a horrific, hideous act that no religion can approve". He said the Qur'an "specifically forbids the kinds of things the Taliban and al-Qaida are guilty of".
"...whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind." (5:32)

"The only reward for those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom..." (5:33)


The first part (5:32) sounds like a prohibition against murdering any innocent human being, but the second part (5:33) permits the killing of non-Muslims under many circumstances (corruption/kufr) according to the Qur'an.

Too bad Sheikh Mohammed Sayyid Tantawi didn't elaborate on his comments regarding "innocent people", did he mean the innocent Muslim, since the Qur'an considers non-Muslims guilty (Harbi) ? Or did he mean non-Muslims as well?

Quote:
And IIRC it notes in the introduction that 75-80% of Sunni Islamic Jurisprudence is identical... T-Rock can find the exact quote... my copy is packed up with the move right now...
I'll find the exact page when I get home but this probably applies - in regard to "The Reliance of the Traveller"

“We certify that the above-mentioned translation corresponds to the Arabic original and conforms to the practice and faith of orthodox Sunni Islam (Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jam’ah)” Al-Azhar.


“There is no doubt that this translation is a valuable and important work, whether as a textbook for teaching Islamic jurisprudence to English-speakers, or as a legal reference for use by scholars, educated laymen, and students in this language.” Dr Taha Jabir al-‘Alwani, President of the International Institute of Islamic Thought.

FWIW, Taha Jabir Alalwani is the co-founder, together with Dr. Yusuf al Qaradawi (the reformer?), of fiqh al-aqalliyyat (Muslim minority jurisprudence) which stands for making fiqh easy in order to enable Islam to spread in the West.


Edited to add, pg. vii, the introduction of “The Reliance of the Traveller” basically states: “The four Sunni schools of Islamic Law, Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi’i, and HanbalI, are identical in approximately 75% of their legal conclusions..” and that “the field of Hadith, for example, who were Shafi’is are such scholars as Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Nasa’I, Ibn Majah, Abu Dawud, Ibn Kathir, Dhahabi, and Nawawi..”

Last edited by T-Rock; 03-14-2010 at 06:29.
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