Feet - You Can't Get Anywhere Without Them! - Page 6

**The Reaper** · 03-08-2010, 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonSlayer

@Surgicalcric: Having plenty of experience in a trade (which my profile outlines adequately enough, a feature that I would think renders the intro thread redundant) that requires meticulous attention to detail, particularly following instructions, I made my initial post on the introduction thread, as prescribed. I made several other posts that month on various threads, to which none were replied, and I haven't checked back on this forum since then. I have no idea why my initial posts no longer appear. You will find a new post made in “Introductions IV,” per your request.

I also consider myself savvy enough to have exhausted the search resource after many hours of reading without finding a current answer to my question, neither on this site, nor other sites or in books. I posted in this thread because other relevant threads haven't been touched for years, and this seemed better than creating a new one. I know that the folks at SFAS have a strict interpretation and application of the regs. I have seen this question posed on these forums, and I have seen the answers as well as the ridicule. Interestingly enough, much of the information is quite old, even referring to soaking the old black issued boots in oil and all that good sauce (the outdated information about black boots is still in Get Selected, too). I suspect that the current suede boots are not appropriate for that treatment. Then there is the restatement of the word “issue,” which I am not sure about, given regulations that don't seem to require issued boots. I have not been in the Army, but I know what the regs meant in the USMC, and for a person with stupid wide feet and high arches that fit nothing available from authorized manufacturers, it meant I had to break the rules and get boots that fit. I had this discussion with many a belt-fed SNCO. Wearing those shitty, ill-fitting "issued" boots during basic training and jump school resulted in fractured metatarsals and spiral shin fractures, which is a condition I don’t care to duplicate. The current Army regs on boots seem liberal enough to cover my case, but if the SFAS cadre is squashing people for wearing Danners, then I’ll settle for getting approved boots, whatever they may actually be, and pay to have them modified to fit my feet. All I’m looking for is clarification. It was my hope that a helpful chap who is currently or knows cadre at SFAS would find my post and illuminate me, or at least point me in the right direction (i.e. something other than the vaunted search button, which yields inadequate results.)

DS:

You might want to check the attitude. As the board rules state, everyone is asked to post an introduction, even the QPs. If you don't like our rules, fine, go elsewhere. This is a QP board, you are a guest and should comport yourself as such. Snarkiness will get you nowhere.

If you are in the Army, then wear the boots which the CIF gives you, That would be an Army "issue" boot. I wear a EEE civilian shoe. I got the issued W boot in the appropriate size and did fine.

TR

newbie · 03-08-2010, 23:30

I've researched this one for a while now and have found some good info in the posts, but have a nagging unanswered question about Planters Fasciitis (PF). I've got a fairly solid case of it, and have had it now steady for about a year. I've been training alot, and have been trying like hell to get rid of it before going in and signing an 18x contract. (I use good insoles, stretch the feet, and ice and elevate a few times a day) It looks like I'll need to take some serious time off my feet to get rid of it though. My question is: Is PF something to just deal with, and drive on, or take the time to heal? i.e. in the opinion of someone who has BTDT, should I start the whole enlistment process anyway, and just deal with it because that's what people do...or would that be inviting disaster in SFAS (assuming that I make it past SOPC, airborne, AIT, and basic)?? basically, if i need to suck it up, because everyone deals with it, i want to know. thanks for your time, and any consideration you might give this.

Surgicalcric · 03-08-2010, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie

...My question is: Is PF something to just deal with, and drive on, or take the time to heal?

Newbie:

PF takes time to heal. The specific amount of time will depend on the extent of your PF, how you are treating it, and your recovery plan. I will tell you for certain that it isnt going to heal as long as you are continuing to train on it, in fact it will get worse as time goes on.

Furthermore, you will not be able to enlist with a non-resolved case of PF, if you are honest on your med screening and/or your DD form 2707/2808. Reading a bit here will reveal how the vast majority of us feel about lying about pre-existing disqualifying medical conditions...I assure you it isnt favorable.

All that being said, you should see a podiatrist -if you arent seeing one now- for treatment and follow their advice to the letter. It is going to put you on your ass for a bit, but its better 3-6 months now than 2-3 years later.

HTH,

Crip

abc_123 · 03-09-2010, 06:56

Not a doc but I had PF when training for SFAS. Probably less severe than yours sounds. I finally went to the TMC and gave them my whole story and pressed for any possible way to speed up the recovery beyond the "ice massage (the dixie cup thing..), rest, and motrin" COA.

They ended up giving me a prescription to go get custom orthotic insoles/arch supports that helped. That and I had to adjust my training to rest my feet a bunch....then build back up slow.

Healing will take time.

craigepo · 03-09-2010, 09:33

Newbie

Sometimes pain is something to drive through, sometimes not. The good Lord gave us nerve endings for a reason.

Sounds like time to start doing some cross-training. If you have a pool nearby, find a good swim workout(you may be able to search and find a pre-scuba workout on this site----be warned, it is some body-nazi stuff). Jump on a bike, whatever it takes to keep from beating your feet up.

Every prescription I have heard of regarding PF has included reduced pounding on your feet.

99meters · 03-09-2010, 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie

I've researched this one for a while now and have found some good info in the posts, but have a nagging unanswered question about Planters Fasciitis (PF). I've got a fairly solid case of it, and have had it now steady for about a year. I've been training alot, and have been trying like hell to get rid of it before going in and signing an 18x contract. (I use good insoles, stretch the feet, and ice and elevate a few times a day) It looks like I'll need to take some serious time off my feet to get rid of it though. My question is: Is PF something to just deal with, and drive on, or take the time to heal? i.e. in the opinion of someone who has BTDT, should I start the whole enlistment process anyway, and just deal with it because that's what people do...or would that be inviting disaster in SFAS (assuming that I make it past SOPC, airborne, AIT, and basic)?? basically, if i need to suck it up, because everyone deals with it, i want to know. thanks for your time, and any consideration you might give this.

Find a good ART practitioner and you can be back to normal in a few weeks.
"Active Release Techniques" is a type of pin and stretch massage. Great for PF and most soft tissue injuries.
hth

newbie · 03-09-2010, 20:27

Honestly, i can tell you that that was some of the best advice I've ever gotten on anything. Thanks for all the info, and PM's etc. I plan on starting a swimming workout ASAP, and found that there is an ART practitioner just down the street from me...heck'uve a coincidence. So im gonna work this BS outta my feet and see where it gets me. Being flat footed, ill probably have it for good in one way or another, but as long as it's not debilitating...Also, SURGICALCRIC, thanks for the info on the medical review stuff. My recruiter has known about the PF, and never mentioned that it might preclude me from even being able to join. you all have my thanks. fading back out now...

turboprop · 03-09-2010, 20:59

Here you go Dragon Slayer.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/SORB/text/...April%2009.ppt

That brief is from April 2009. A few slides down has the SFAS packing list as well as a slide with name and pictures of the only authorized boots SFAS. I don't know much about Danner boots, but one of the pictures is a Danner.

99meters · 03-10-2010, 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by newbie

Being flat footed, ill probably have it for good in one way or another, but as long as it's not debilitating.....

PF has nothing to do with being flat footed. 99% of soft tissue injuries to the lower limb are the result of poor biomechanics or overuse.
If you are already following a sensible workout program (gradual progressions/overload, rest & recovery, variety, etc) then check your biomechanics.
As for running... keep your shoulders over your hips and your foot contacts under your hips. Also, land flat footed. As you move from a jog to a sprint you land higher up on the balls of your feet...this happens naturally
Running is natural, your body does the right thing if you let it. Reaching foward and trying to stay on the ball of your feet are the two biggest contributers to PF, shin splints and hamstring tears.
Reaching and pointing your toes (trying to stay on the balls of your feet) result in foot touchdowns being far ahead of the center of mass. Therefore, your body pust pull itself over its vertical axis (which is very stressful) before it can push/take off. When it comes to locomotion, the body was design to push not pull.
HTH... good luck with your recovery.

abc_123 · 03-10-2010, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99meters

PF has nothing to do with being flat footed.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pla...N=risk-factors

Factors that may increase your risk of developing plantar fasciitis include:

Faulty foot mechanics. Being flat-footed, having a high arch or even having an abnormal pattern of walking can adversely affect the way weight is distributed when you're standing, putting added stress on the plantar fascia.

Anevolution · 03-10-2010, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by abc_123

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pla...N=risk-factors

Factors that may increase your risk of developing plantar fasciitis include:

Faulty foot mechanics. Being flat-footed, having a high arch or even having an abnormal pattern of walking can adversely affect the way weight is distributed when you're standing, putting added stress on the plantar fascia.

ABC:

His whole post was off. Giving blanked running advice without actually watching him run is counter poductive, he could be a heel striker or toe running etc... I'm sure if he was familiar with running, he would have heard of the Pose meathod witch is the exact opposite of what he listed but is a far better way of running. Greats like Michael Johnson, Carl Lewis, Jesse Owens, Bob Beaman etc... All Pose runners. Pose also as posted in http://www.posetech.com/library/pp-RW-0001.html can stop PF in long time runners with a history of PF. That's scientifically proven info. I wouldn't take his advice with a bag of salt. My .02

V/r
Anevolution

99meters · 03-11-2010, 00:44

RE: abc_123. The reason it says "may be a factor" is because for every one person that has a high arch or a flat foot and has PF there are five without.
I've been flat footed all my life and competed at the div-1, national and international level without developing PF. I suffered with terrible shin splints all through HS and college and did not get over it untill my post-collegiate coach corrected my running mechanics.
As a coach Ive avoided and corrected numerous lower limb soft-tissue injuries with simble adjusments to load (volume, intensity,surface , etc) and corrections to biomechanics.
A really high arch, really flat feet, oddly unequal limb to torso ratios, or natural ladorsis are factors that may affect "normal" biomechanical movements and call for better planing.
Quick example. I had two athletes with really long limbs and short torsos(built for running) that would always have back and knee problems when we did squats. I switched them to dead lifts and cleans from the hang and never had a problem again. I was able to target the same muscle groups (hip & knee extensors) in a way that used their build to an advantage.
A high arch or a flat foot does not have to be a problem if you know what you are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anevolution

ABC:

His whole post was off. Giving blanked running advice without actually watching him run is counter poductive, he could be a heel striker or toe running etc... I'm sure if he was familiar with running, he would have heard of the Pose meathod witch is the exact opposite of what he listed but is a far better way of running. Greats like Michael Johnson, Carl Lewis, Jesse Owens, Bob Beaman etc... All Pose runners. Pose also as posted in http://www.posetech.com/library/pp-RW-0001.html can stop PF in long time runners with a history of PF. That's scientifically proven info. I wouldn't take his advice with a bag of salt. My .02

V/r
Anevolution

Anevolution, I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but you really are just talking out of your a$$. What do you know about Bob Beaman or Carl Lewis.
The guy who coached Carl Lewis and many other Olympians and world record holders is Tom Tellez. Tom Tellez was also my coach and is one of my dearest friends. We were all thought the same thing: relaxation first, body position, arm action and lastly, foot placement.
Do you believe the Moroccan that runs the mile in 3:43 or the Ethiopian that runs the 5000 meters (3.1 miles) in 12:37 or those Kenyans that run the marathon in sub 2:07:00 (averaging sub 5min miles for 26 miles) are using the POSE method or running developed by Romannov, the Russian sport sciencetis living in Miami.

Anevolution · 03-11-2010, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99meters

Anevolution, I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but you really are just talking out of your a$$. What do you know about Bob Beaman or Carl Lewis.The guy who coached Carl Lewis and many other Olympians and world record holders is Tom Tellez. Tom Tellez was also my coach and is one of my dearest friends. We were all thought the same thing: relaxation first, body position, arm action and lastly, foot placement. Do you believe the Moroccan that runs the mile in 3:43 or the Ethiopian that runs the 5000 meters (3.1 miles) in 12:37 or those Kenyans that run the marathon in sub 2:07:00 (averaging sub 5min miles for 26 miles) are using the POSE method or running developed by Romannov, the Russian sport sciencetis living in Miami.

99Meters:
I never said anything about them learning pose running. They are all natural pose runners. No ass talking here.

I don't have any cool coach friends, but I have been to 2 certs for Pose running with Crossfit. There they had video break downs of "fast" people who were natural pose runners. Like the above mentioned names. I have also read a few articles in runners world and here and there about it. I think it is a great way of running learned trait or practiced doesn't matter to me. With "ALL" of your running experience, I would have thought you would have known, there were natural pose runners out there.

V/r
Anevolution

DragonSlayer · 03-11-2010, 11:31

@Reaper: message received.

@turboprop: Thanks a bunch. I did look at the Bragg site before, and was a little frustrated by the haphazard layout. I had found the packing list, but the PowerPoint is much more thorough. In particular, the pictures explain a lot more than the text does.

For my fellow wannabes wondering the same thing, it appears that all the boot models pictured use the traditional-style sole, i.e. can be resoled by a cobbler (with the exception of the Bates boots, which have been blessed for reasons I can't comprehend). It looks like my TRXs are out, so I'll be boot shopping, since I won't be able to take advantage of CIF until it's too late to break them in properly. If any QPs in the know care to elaborate on or correct my interpretation of the PowerPoint (http://www.bragg.army.mil/SORB/text/...April%2009.ppt), especially since changes may have been made in the year since it was published, I would certainly welcome it.

Surgicalcric · 03-11-2010, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonSlayer

...since I won't be able to take advantage of CIF until it's too late to break them in properly....

You definately want to take well broken in boots to SFAS...

There isnt a CIF for you to specifically draw boots from for SFAS. You should be issued boots from a CIF when you come into the Army though. You can wait for that or purchase a couple pairs of the approved boots and send them to Clark's Boot Repair (referenced here many times) at Ft Bragg for resoling. Either the #6 or #9 sole is my recommendation (also referred to as the SFAS or SOPC special.) They will also remove the heel and toe cups if ya want making them more like a pair of slippers.

Crip