Are we at war with Islam?

[rudyzbt]

NDD I would have to agree with Airbornelawyer. If you are Jewish you share both a religious and a particular cultrural heritage with other Jews. It's part of the reason one can say that one does not believe in the religion and profess to be athiest, but despite ones own beliefs other Jews will still consider you to be Jewish. Maybe a non-practicing Jew, but still Jewish. According to Jewish law (Orthodox and Conservative), if a mother is Jewish her children are then Jewish as well, the same is not true of the father (except for Reform). The modern Jewish community has only existed as intergrated parts of the world states in which they live for under 100 years. Their communities did take from the places in which they lived and make each community different, but as a whole those communities remained seperate from the outside world within which they lived. There were exceptions as in all things, but in general the opposite was true. The isolation was both externally imposed and internally upheld. In the modern context it has caused a dichotimis form of cultural identity. In the United States, most modern Jews tend to have a large amount of confusion over this crisis of identity. They share both a Jewish identity and an American identity. It is realtively speaking a new problem. Jews are an extremely well integrated part of American society. In fact in places like New York the dominant culture has adopted many things Jewish. The way it is dealt with is through an understanding that the Judaism is both a Religious and a Cultural identity. 100 years ago, most Jews would have said they were one and the same, religion and culture. Today, given the decrease in practice and increase intergration, one refers to a Jewish heritage much in the same way an Italian American refers to themselves as Italian.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Well, like I said, I don't know enough about them so I'll defer. point is, they ain't Arabs.

Now, are we at war with Islam or not? I say yes. not necessarily the religion of Mohammed, but rather the representatives of Islam with a will to power. They consistantly either incite to violence or remain silent while it is done in their name. I think it is common enough for it not to be considered an exception any longer. And since they control the religion...

[Solid]

Not really, I just believe in God.

Solid

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by Airbornelawyer
Judaism is a religion, but Jewish is both a religious and ethnic label. If you are an atheist, you don't stop being a Jew, and if you or your wife is an atheist Jewish woman, your children are still Jews.

I disagree.

Being a Jew is like being a Boyscout, you can call yourself a Jew, Mormon, a muslim,Buddhist, or Boyscout, but in order to be a Boyscout or a Jew or Jewish, is a state of mind, an ideology a lifestyle, not a stamp that is placed upon you after you’re born.

While many in the Jewish community believe that when you are born and your mother is a Jew you will be a Jew by proxy is pure cow manure. It’s a system of “beliefs� as all religions are based upon and nothing more. You are what you believe you are not what someone tells you.

Belief \Be*lief"\, n. 2: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof [syn: dogma, tenet]

Control your beliefs, or they will control you.

Team Sergeant

[pulque]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
[B]I disagree.

Being a Jew is like being a Boyscout, you can call yourself a Jew, Mormon, a muslim,Buddhist, or Boyscout, but in order to be a Boyscout or a Jew or Jewish, is a state of mind, an ideology a lifestyle, not a stamp that is placed upon you after you’re born.

While many in the Jewish community believe that when you are born and your mother is a Jew you will be a Jew by proxy is pure cow manure. It’s a system of “beliefs� as all religions are based upon and nothing more. You are what you believe you are not what someone tells you.

what of someone who believes they are a jew but does not have a jewish mother, and thus is not considered a jew by other jews?

ethnicity is not 100% belief or state of mind.

[Surgicalcric]

Originally posted by pulque
what of someone who believes they are a jew but does not have a jewish mother, and thus is not considered a jew by other jews?

ethnicity is not 100% belief or state of mind.

HUH? I cannot seem to follow your question.

[NousDefionsDoc]

Originally posted by Surgicalcric
HUH? I cannot seem to follow your question.

Its like me being a communist - GH thinks I'm one, but my mother isn't one and the other communists won't let me on the Central Committee.

[pulque]

Originally posted by Surgicalcric
HUH? I cannot seem to follow your question.

sorry for the confusion. I dont agree that being jewish is like being a boyscout or joining a club.

I dont know if this adds anything to the discussion of whether we are at war with islam the religion or islam the ethnic identity. personally, I believe that "the fanatic" is one of the most significant inventions of historical time.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally posted by pulque
ethnicity is not 100% belief or state of mind.

Where did I mention ethnicity?

[Surgicalcric]

Okay. I got it now. I was not tracking before.

[NousDefionsDoc]

I dont know if this adds anything to the discussion of whether we are at war with islam the religion or islam the ethnic identity.

I don't think Islam is an ethnic identity.

However, I fail to see the difference, since they identify themselves by their religion and take their marching orders from their clerics.

[pulque]

Originally posted by Team Sergeant
Where did I mention ethnicity?

it is the ethnic aspect of judaism we are talking about, if we agree that believing you are jewish doesn't make you jewish.

ethnicity
n : an ethnic quality or affiliation resulting from racial or cultural ties;

[Solid]

IMHO, if others think that you are jewish, to an extent it's irrelevant what you believe.
Solid

[Surgicalcric]

Originally posted by Solid
IMHO, if others think that you are jewish, to an extent it's irrelevant what you believe.
Solid

WTH kind of reasoning is that?

You do not become Jewish because others think it so. If a person is not either a.) religiously or b.) ethnically/culturally Jewish you are not Jewish. Likewise, a person cant decide they are now Jewish, nod their head and it becomes so. There has to be a tie to one of the above.

[Sacamuelas]

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Now, are we at war with Islam or not? I say yes. not necessarily the religion of Mohammed, but rather the representatives of Islam with a will to power. They consistantly either incite to violence or remain silent while it is done in their name. I think it is common enough for it not to be considered an exception any longer.

I have to agree with NDD on this one. It sounds incredibly over-simplified and very non-Politically Correct, but I think it is quickly becoming a necessary admission if we are to to win the WOT/OIF.

Should we wage war with the Islamic leadership that incites all this hate in a public/straightforward manner or should it be a SneakySF type endeavor while maintaining a diplomatic smile in public?

These last few posts about definitions seem to be more related to this than the topic... (trying to get a few of the new smiley's to stick..haha)