Chronic lower back pain

[hoot72]

Given many of you in the SF have humped hundreds of miles over the years with heavy loads on your backs using army boots and jungle boots, I can only ask, do some of you or most of you have problems with your knees or ankles after leaving the army or retiring?

Or do you find you actually have problems with the meniscus in the knees?

I am asking as I usually use old army jungle boots for my work in the jungles here and they are practical to use for the work I do but on long hikes with a heavy pack on gravel roads, they do take their toll on my knees..

[magician]

I have arthritis secondary to old jump injuries, and dramatically reduced range of motion in my neck, shoulders, and back. I have service-connected VA disability ratings for all of them. Then, we get to knees and ankles. Same story.

Here is what is working for me.

1. I lost a ton weight through strictly controlling my diet. In my case, I eat only Thai food. Lots of green vegetables (colloquially known as "rabbit food"), and lots of fruit (some of which has no known English name, and looks like it is either the result of a nuclear test gone amok or teleportation from the era of the dinosaurs). I cut down on meat, almost eliminated milk, and completely eliminated breads.

2. I got my ass into the pool. I crank laps for an hour every day. It took me time to work up to this. If you do not know how to swim well, for therapeutic purposes, consult a physical therapist or a trainer, and learn. Pool exercise is the shit. It is easy on the bones and joints. My back, neck, knees and shoulders are still fucked up, but I feel a lot better, and my mobility has dramatically improved.

3. I started taking testosterone in gel-cap form. This really helped me grunt through the pain and discomfort barriers as I was improving my physical conditioning. It also facilitated the conversion of fat back into muscle. It also made me a lot more mobile.

4. I married a woman twenty years younger than myself.



Got to go. Heading to the pool now.

Good luck.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by hoot72

Given many of you in the SF have humped hundreds of miles over the years with heavy loads on your backs using army boots and jungle boots, I can only ask, do some of you or most of you have problems with your knees or ankles after leaving the army or retiring?

Or do you find you actually have problems with the meniscus in the knees?

I am asking as I usually use old army jungle boots for my work in the jungles here and they are practical to use for the work I do but on long hikes with a heavy pack on gravel roads, they do take their toll on my knees..

Yes. Every joint is prone to damage, from the toes all the way up through the neck. Ankles, knees, hips, backs, shoulders and necks appear to be the most common.

Yes. Many here have probably had meniscectomies.

The stuff you wear out or break while you were younger will hurt more as you get older. I didn't believe it either till it happened. The body is designed to last for normal wear and tear for about 40 years. Good physical conditioning will help it last longer and in better shape, but wear on a joint is damage. The muscles may get stronger, but the structure of the joints do not.

As you can do less PT, you have to change your eating habits or you will gain weight, which exacerbates the physical injuries and damage. Getting older beats the alternatives though.

Good luck, and take it easy.

TR

[Hipshot]

Not much luck with the injections, physical therapy or pain meds. The meds have done a good job of masking the pain, but come with a price. Ultram ER (200mg) and Tramadol (50mg 2/day) are both morphine-based and can lead to physical dependence. Got a second opinion today from another orthopedic specialist. After a long discussion on what treatment I've had and quality of life, they've ordered a CAT scan to look at bone density to see if I'm a candidate for surgery.

The description of the surgery scares the heck out of me! They would put 2 long screws into L5, then pull it back into alignment (about 6mm worth). Two steel rods would be inserted to fuse L5 and S1 together. A steel plate would be inserted in front of L5 to keep it from tilting while everything settles.

I would imagine that recovery time for such a procedure would be on the order of 1-2 months before being able to start physical therapy, then 3+ month of therapy. Does that sound reasonable?

[The Reaper]

Hipshot:

I am prescribed three Tramadol per day for orthopedic pain, have been for over a year, and I usually take just two per day. I also take NSAIDs.

A couple of times, I have skipped doses or missed a few days when on extended trips, and frankly, I do not think it helps that much, is very addictive, or has any kind of serious effect, at least not on me. The Vioxx was much better, but obviously, COX2 inhibitors are not on the menu any longer.

When the pain is severe (usually about once or twice per week unless I am flying) I take Codeine, OxyContin, or Hydrocodone (each prescribed at various times), and frequently, I cannot even tell I have taken them. Then every once in a while, one of the doggoned things will work as designed and I get a little light headed for an hour or two. Maybe a two beer effect.

I do not think that you have to worry about the Tramadol, and if you are like me, the real narcotics will not do that much to help either.

Best of luck with finding a solution that works for you.

TR

[magician]

No joke: see if there is an acupuncturist in your area, and pay them a visit.

You may be surprised. The downside: they are typically not covered by insurance plans, nor are there any acupuncturists at the VA.

Seriously. Visiting one can change your entire opinion about the so-called "alternative health" industry, though not about hippies.

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by Matta mile

JGarcia,

Remember inspecting your boots for needing a new heel by rolling a #2 pencil under the back portion of the heel? Same technique however for the sides of the heel. If you have a good shoe store in your area that sells running shoes or regular shoes they will likely be able to tell you right away.
MM

I have started getting swollen heels now from long hikes and bush whacking in the jungle boots..have tried adding an in-sole but was told that it may have something to do with high cholesterol (a warning sign). That on top of the lower back pains which are from my aging back and the job.

Having said that, I dont know if anyone would agree with me but reflexology (I get mine done pretty darn often in Bangkok and over here in Kota KInabalu) makes a huge difference in how my feet and legs feel after a long trek or hike especially with a heavy load. I dont subscribe too much to massages as an option but reflexology, if you can tolerate the pain for the hour, some how makes such a big difference..

Not sure if anyone has given it a go..and I dont know how good the reflexology is over in the states,

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Yes. Every joint is prone to damage, from the toes all the way up through the neck. Ankles, knees, hips, backs, shoulders and necks appear to be the most common.

Yes. Many here have probably had meniscectomies.

The stuff you wear out or break while you were younger will hurt more as you get older. I didn't believe it either till it happened. The body is designed to last for normal wear and tear for about 40 years. Good physical conditioning will help it last longer and in better shape, but wear on a joint is damage. The muscles may get stronger, but the structure of the joints do not.

As you can do less PT, you have to change your eating habits or you will gain weight, which exacerbates the physical injuries and damage. Getting older beats the alternatives though.

Good luck, and take it easy.TR

I have been fortunate; I think my injuries are no way as bad as others so I will just have to suck it up and deal with it. Having said that, I do go for reflexology once a month and that helps quite a bit..

[Doczilla]

I don't normally advocate complementary medicine for problems that require good old-fashioned western medicine (no voodoo for diabetes or heart disease), but I believe that in your case this may be beneficial, since surgery is the last stop on this train. Acupuncture is certainly worth a try here before surgery. When looking for someone, look first at the acupuncture schools near you. This is 1) to keep you from going to some hack who took a weekend seminar and now calls himself an acupuncturist, 2) to save you some money (usually costs about half if you have one of the students perform it), and 3) guarantee that the "attending" acupuncturist overseeing your care has some substantial experience. If you go with a private acupuncturist, look for one who has a certificate from a school accredited by ACAOM.

I've had 2 "rounds" of acupunture, one from the aforementioned hack, and the second at the NESA. I would do the second in a heartbeat if I lived anywhere near Boston again.

Soulsedition's recommendation for physical therapy is absolutely spot on. Your primary care doc can order this, and the PT will come up with an appropriate rehab plan. If you are still very active, you can consider seeing a sports medicine clinic for your PT, and may get some good recommendations from the sports med docs (some are ortho, some family practice, some emergency medicine) for exercises at home, lifestyle modification, shoes, etc.

As far as the medication is concerned, it is POSSIBLE to become addicted to Tramadol or narcotics, but unlikely. Of patients who are on appropriate pain regimens of narcotics for chronic pain, only about 1% actually become "addicted". This includes folks on fentanyl patches, percocet, oxycontin, etc. Don't let the spectre of dependence scare you out of an appropriate pain control regimen that will improve your pain and quality of life.


'zilla

[Matta mile]

I'm too much of a pussy to take all those darn needles!

[bost1751]

Hey Chet:

I got a little messed in Tolz years ago. I went work with the 22d in England and one of the guys there had really messed his bck a few years prior. I told me yoga is the only thing he found that worked for him and he was back to 100%. Anyway, he got me started on yoga and it really did help.

Good luck and yes, this aging thing is not all it is cracked up to be.

Dave

[ccrn]

I hope Im not hijacking this thread by asking this but I wonder...

Have any of you suffered a heniated disc (in particular extruded) and still served on teams?

Thanks-

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by bost1751

Hey Chet:

I got a little messed in Tolz years ago. I went work with the 22d in England and one of the guys there had really messed his bck a few years prior. I told me yoga is the only thing he found that worked for him and he was back to 100%. Anyway, he got me started on yoga and it really did help.

Good luck and yes, this aging thing is not all it is cracked up to be.

Dave

My dad swears by yoga as a possible solution to chronic back problems; he had a slipped disc and has always been an athlete (still is even today; he does his 5 mile runs three times a week and plays indoor soccer and still has what looks like a 4 pack on his stomach-puts me to shame really!) and actually went to see a nepalese gurkha who retired ans settled down over in Brunei many years back who had organized yoga classes and it did wonders. He even tried acupuncture which didnt help but yoga did the trick.

I have yet to go that far with acupuncture.

[hoot72]

Originally Posted by ccrn

I hope Im not hijacking this thread by asking this but I wonder...

Have any of you suffered a heniated disc (in particular extruded) and still served on teams?

Thanks-

My team mate on the 1000km raid gauloises in vietnam was in pretty bad shape on the first day of the hike before we even got to any of the hard sections of the race course and he was pretty much on pain killers and half awake for the rest of the 8 days we had ahead of us....we ended up towing him whenever we were on foot as he was in absolute agony..he was no good to us on the kayak sections as he well as he kept falling asleep from the pain and the meds so we ended up towing him then as well...he had no choice on the mountain bike sections and tried his best to keep up which is a credit to him which he did a good job of...we thought he had food poisoning as he kept crapping and was very weak but he kept complaining of excrutiating back pains which puzzled us...

What was worse is he got back home and then found out he not only had a slip disc but also typhoid which was probably why he was skin and bones by the end of the race on day 9....he couldnt stop shitting on the first few days and the black bombers we gave seem to work but didnt I ended up cleaning him up every day...it was a disgusting job but some-one had to do it..he was just to weak and not in sync...we thought it was just food poisoning.

I can only imagine on top of the blisters, lost toe nails, sunburn and lack of sleep what else he went through..I wouldnt wish it on anyone...

[Hipshot]

Anyone had a discography? I'm scheduled for one on 9-11 and was wanting to know what to expect. I've got 3 discs that are suspect for causing my pain (2 are questionable and 1 is almost certain).