Train-up for Nov.21 SFRE.

[Focused]

18C4V, I tried to send you a PM, but your inbox is full. Is there another way to get in touch with you?

[dknob]

As an avid crossfitter and rucker and somebody who is in incredible shape (more so then when I was in Ranger Batt). I think I can outperform physically probably 80% of hooahs going to selection. But could I max out my push ups in good proper chest to the floor and lock arms out form in 2 minutes? To be honest I haven't tried it in forever, but I kind of doubt it unless I spent some serious time focusing on push ups while omitting other more important workouts.

I'd have to see a lot more performance/testing in an individual who can get 300+ to actually judge if they are fit. APFT is so archaic and a worthless judge of physical performance. Army really needs to use common sense and big boy rules. At the very least SOCOM should have done away with APFT long ago.

Sorry, just venting.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by dknob

As an avid crossfitter and rucker and somebody who is in incredible shape (more so then when I was in Ranger Batt). I think I can outperform physically probably 80% of hooahs going to selection. But could I max out my push ups in good proper chest to the floor and lock arms out form in 2 minutes? To be honest I haven't tried it in forever, but I kind of doubt it unless I spent some serious time focusing on push ups while omitting other more important workouts.

I'd have to see a lot more performance/testing in an individual who can get 300+ to actually judge if they are fit. APFT is so archaic and a worthless judge of physical performance. Army really needs to use common sense and big boy rules. At the very least SOCOM should have done away with APFT long ago.

Sorry, just venting.

This so gay,,

We do not need any steroid pumping trolls,, with an ego problem..

Go back under your ruck and do 500 push-ups.....

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by JJ_BPK

This so gay,,

We do not need any steroid pumping trolls,, with an ego problem..

Go back under your ruck and do 500 push-ups.....

J:

While you are entitled to your opinion I would offer that -having known dknob for a couple years- he is anything but as you describe...

He is just very sure of himself...

That sad, dknb: you may want to save the bravado for after you are selected Brother... Rant or not...

Crip

[dknob]

Eh i didn't mean to sound arrogant. I was just trying to make a point that the APFT is not a good judge of fitness and could prohibit otherwise squared away and very fit individuals from chasing their dreams. I didn't mean to apply it to myself - more plenty of up and coming hooahs, hooyahs, or hoorahs who have taken heed to the more ruggedized training regimes of crossfit, military athlete, sealfit, or whatever the case may have a rough time with some of the standards who happen to be insignificant.

I guess I just wish the military would wisen up a little. If it ain't broke dont fix it is what I thoroughly have always believed. But the PT system is broken.

And by "selection" I wasn't specifically referring to SFAS. In my mind I was thinking of every Entry-level SOF selection course i.e. BUD/s, RASP, SFAS, PJ Indoc, etc. I know the young guys that go to these courses as I was one of them and so were you at some point. I remember plenty of APFT beasts, but I rarely remember any true beasts. I guess it all makes sense in my head.

Again didn't mean to be arrogant, unless I'm arrogant in nature? I hope not. I'm definitely not a steroid induced thumping troll

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by dknob

I remember plenty of APFT beasts, but I rarely remember any true beasts. I guess it all makes sense in my head. Again didn't mean to be arrogant, unless I'm arrogant in nature? I hope not. I'm definitely not a steroid induced thumping troll

You're a lucky candidate, Crip is is a QP of few words, If he say you're GTG, OK..

Work on your nature,, and while you're at it,, another 500 push-ups...

[Delta-1-Bravo]

DKnob, I've shared your frustration in the past w/many things re strength training, program design, nutrition, etc. Here are a few of my current thoughts which I hope will be of use/interest.

Originally Posted by dknob

...the APFT is not a good judge of fitness and could prohibit otherwise squared away and very fit individuals from chasing their dreams.

The physical requirements to pass SFRE and/or qualify for SFAS are readily available and clearly defined (as are req's for BUD/s, PJ's, CCT's, MARSOC, etc). Minimum PFT req's are part of all those "indoc" tests. Meeting those standards is difficult for some, easier for others. If an individual who is very fit and capable of passing such a test fails, he alone is responsible. There are those who are very fit and should, w/adequate training, pass a PFT easily. For them, isn't part of being squared away showing up at the indoc capable of at least meeting minimum standards on the required PFT?

...plenty of up and coming hooahs, hooyahs, or hoorahs who have taken heed to the more ruggedized training regimes of crossfit, military athlete, sealfit, or whatever the case may have a rough time with some of the standards who happen to be insignificant.

I agree to a point. Sure, some strong guys will struggle w/2-minute pushup and situp tests if they don't train for them. Fit guys who can carry a ton of weight and ruck forever might struggle to run 14:24 if they don't train for it. But so what? No such thing as one "best way" to train. The best way to train involves asking and answering a whole bunch of questions that will usually start with "What's the athlete trying to accomplish?" If he's attempting to pass an indoc of some kind, he'd better train to pass the specific tests, regardless of their significance to overall strength and fitness.

I guess I just wish the military would wisen up a little. If it ain't broke dont fix it is what I thoroughly have always believed. But the PT system is broken.

I completely understand the frustration of any strong & fit athlete saying: why should I train for something (an APFT for example) that will impede recovery and therefore take away from more productive strength training? But that sentiment can be found in ANY type of program (even good ones) if they are not scaled and tailored to meet the needs of the individual. And you're right, no services's PT system will get a soldier strong and fit. That's the individual's job. My 2-cents: PT tests exist to set minimum eligibility standards for things such as enlistments, indocs, military schools, etc. They give basic information re the strength & fitness (or lack thereof) of nearly 3 million troops. 2-miles in 10 minutes? Probably pretty darn fit. 20 minutes? Likely a slug. Like the NFL combine, the testing doesn't tell the whole story about the individual athletes, but they do yield general information re strength, stamina, agility, endurance, etc.

Like I said, over the years I've come to believe no singular "best" training system exists. That's helped me with the ups and downs of training through both injuries and illness, as well as the pros and cons of tailoring training to suit specific needs. For example: Squat, Deadlift and Bench totals all take drastic nosedives when training for triathlons. "True beasts" are few and far between, and I'm sure not one of them. I hate losing hard earned gains, but they're sacrificed to get faster on the bike and run. I'd look at training for an indoc in the same light. Don't make it about the strength and power lost, focus on the confidence gained as you go into the test knowing you're thoroughly prepared to do your best.

I agree to a point. Sure, some strong guys will struggle w/2-minute pushup and situp tests if they don't train for them. Fit guys who can carry a ton of weight and ruck forever might struggle to run 14:24 if they don't train for it. But so what? No such thing as one "best way" to train. The best way to train involves asking and answering a whole bunch of questions that will usually start with "What's the athlete trying to accomplish?" If he's attempting to pass an indoc of some kind, he'd better train to pass the specific tests, regardless of their significance to overall strength and fitness.



Sitting in the dayroom one Saturday afternoon reading Phase II assignments, writing, etc., Bob Howard sticks his head in the door and asks if anyone was interested taking a short ruck with him.

I said sure, as well as three other students. He said, "grab your boots, rucks, wear what you want", (shorts, PT gear or BDUs), the choice was ours. He was in 107s and Jungle Boots, I opted for shorts and brown T-shirt.

Departure time was 1pm, we made it all the way to Camp Mackall just after 7pm, taking a short break at some midway point, (30 minutes).

The four of us rucked as a tight group, 2 x 2. The talk was relaxed and easy, most of the dialogue were questions from Maj Howard, where we were from, what we did back at home, that sort of thing. I was too innocent to realize what an opportunity I had to ask a bunch of Vietnam questions, his MOH, the legends of CCN, CCC, CCS, who was who, where are they now, so I just kept my mouth shut and made comments like, "...nice sunset, who wants another cigar?"

Once at MacKall, he excused himself to talk to Phase I students and Cadre. He told us to eat in the Camp DFAC, and get in the truck for a ride back to post, "thanks for rucking with him", he said, he "enjoyed the company" and shook our hands, saying "good job, good job", to each of us.

Next morning, I was walking to chow, (Sunday), he was just returning back, and yes, he walked it again. Must have been up all night, leaving just after midnight.

He sat at his table, talked to TAC Cadre, and went home. Bet a buffalo nickel he walked there too.

I'm telling this story to make a point. Feeling confident about ones physical ability is great, feeling relaxed, and accepted by Bob Howard feels even better.

Keep rucking, get confident in you own abilities and above all, have a good time with your PT.

The big green tick on your back is your best friend, become one.