How do you do it? - Page 4

bberkley · 08-06-2004, 16:40

If its one of my Glocks, I usually am inserting a fresh mag with sufficient force to drop the slide. I rarely ever shoot to slide lock when competing in USPSA matches in Production Division. I shoot based on the way the COF is laid out, and plan my reloads.

With my STI, I pinch the rear of the slide as I was taught that way many years ago. I do the Glocks the same way when I initially load them prior to beginning a course of fire. I've not had an opportunity yet to attend a Defensive or Combat Handgun course, as I expect the weak-hand over the top is what is taught.

Many of the folks I shoot with use the weak-hand over the top, but I've seen lots of shooters come close to sweeping their weak hand in front of the muzzle when attempting to do that. Most of the LEO guys and some of the guys who have attended formal training use the weak-hand over the top method for stoppage clearance/reloading.

I usually make it a point to keep my parts away from the dangerous end.

I know several guys (RH) that use their weak-hand thumb to drop the slide via the slide release after a reload so they don't break their strong-hand grip.

On a side note, here is a link to a video of Travis Tomasie (he shoots with the AMU now) practicing reloading an Open racegun.

http://www.doublealpha.biz/images/travis_reload.mpg

Endorphin Rush · 08-08-2004, 18:14

Rack/release slide over the top with support/weak hand always...... why?????

1. gross motor skill

2. universal method for all occasions/occurrences...less confusion

3. much stronger method of racking slide/releasing slide

4. economy of motion ... = speed

5. less manipulation of weapon with strong hand while reaching for slide release lever (OK, I've got short fingers)

6. sometimes, even when you're counting your rounds, the slide does not lock back on an empty mag. You've got to rack it now, somehow, to insert a round into chamber. I am in the habit of racking it even after slide lock for those times in the dark when I can not see that It truly did not lock back as it should. Nothing worse that hitting that slilde release lever only to hear "click" instead of "kaboom". Or atleast seeing only darkness instead of muzzle flash.

***I, too, have shot Glocks and, although I've never had a slide lock lever break, I have fumbled with them while trying to release a locked-back slide (atleast until I got the tactical slide lock lever installed)

NousDefionsDoc · 08-08-2004, 18:47

Who here counts rounds?

Endorphin Rush · 08-09-2004, 02:16

I thought someone had previously stated that they count their rounds and always reload with one in the chamber???????????????

NousDefionsDoc · 08-09-2004, 08:59

No, I'm asking. "Who here counts rounds?"

08-09-2004, 09:03

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
Who here counts rounds?

Thought that is what tracers were for...

**Team Sergeant** · 08-09-2004, 09:06

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
No, I'm asking. "Who here counts rounds?"

Coming in or going out?

NousDefionsDoc · 08-09-2004, 09:28

Going out.

**Team Sergeant** · 08-09-2004, 09:33

I don't count rounds when I have more than one weapon and if you find me in combat you will find me with more than one weapon.

TS

NousDefionsDoc · 08-09-2004, 09:39

This is just my opinion, but I think there is enough to worry about without trying to remember how many rounds one has fired. Much more important to constantly re-assess the tactical situation.

And what difference does it make? One is going to shoot until the engagement is over or they run out anyway.

I find it hard to believe that people can accurately do this in combat. I guess there are those that can.

Now I will count remaining magazines every now and then from behind cover.

**The Reaper** · 08-09-2004, 09:43

Quote:

Originally posted by NousDefionsDoc
This is just my opinion, but I think there is enough to worry about without trying to remember how many rounds one has fired. Much more important to constantly re-assess the tactical situation.

And what difference does it make? One is going to shoot until the engagement is over or they run out anyway.

I find it hard to believe that people can accurately do this in combat. I guess there are those that can.

Now I will count remaining magazines every now and then from behind cover.

Exactly.

I cannot reliably count down a 15 or 30 round mag under stress with everything else that is going on. Some may be able to.

IMHO, I prefer to practice reloading quickly, check ammo status when the tactical situation permits, and try not to move out from cover without having topped off.

Others may be more talented in this area.

TR

Guy · 08-09-2004, 17:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Endorphin Rush
I thought someone had previously stated that they count their rounds and always reload with one in the chamber???????????????

You must be writing about.

Trying to concentrate on the "front sight" is difficult, much less counting rounds.

Quote:

Originally posted by bberkley
http://www.doublealpha.biz/images/travis_reload.mpg

Don't get me wrong, he is good, however...he needs to do this wearing the gear we wear.

**Peregrino** · 08-09-2004, 21:14

Good thread. For slide lock "hot" reloads I use the slide stop. For everything else I use weak hand sweep. That includes cold loads and IA drills (usually some type of stoppage). Other contributers have already expounded adequately on the reasons why (TR, TS, etc.). It all comes back to training and building "muscle memory". When I first attended SOT, guys like Poole, Adams, Young, and the rest of the miscreants at Mott Lake took seriously the mission of passing along their experiences, something I've had reason to be grateful for several times since. On the matter of technique, I'm a southpaw and I've never had a problem using my index (trigger) finger to manipulate the slide stop or the magazine release. I usually have to shift my grip but I've learned to live with it. The only ambi accessory I use is the safety. I tried changing over the mag release on the Berretta but found it difficult to overcome years of muscle memory so I switched back. Besides, there's not much sense in learning a new technique for each weapon. Kind of defeats the purpose for all that muscle memory stuff.

We always give lip service to the saying "Train the way you fight because you'll fight the way you train." Recent combat experiences are reinforcing the truth of that statement. Here's my soapbox on a couple of things that have surfaced on this thread. When it comes to counting bullets - not on your life. It works great on the range and I still find myself doing it there ocassionally but it's a bad habit and I try to train with drills that don't allow me to anticipate running dry. Having to ID the threat, find the front sight, put it where it's supposed to be, squeeze the trigger, and then find the next threat is difficult enough. When it quits going BANG, find cover and fix the problem if you can (doesn't matter if it's out of ammo or a stoppage - it's the same thing - a problem). If you can't find cover then keep moving and transition, 2nd choice reload/conduct IA drill (while moving). In any event get back in the fight. The same thing goes for the "catch the round" stunt, or - just as bad - the catch the empty magazine stunt. Both of them waste time/motion, encourage fumbling, and are potentially fatal in a tactical environment. That's stuff you do on an admin target range that'll get you killed in real life. (Check the FBI stats for stories about police officers found dead with expended brass in their pocket - something they learned to do during annual quals on the range. Got to love the stats, they provide wonderful object lessons for just about every fatal stupidity you can imagine - and most of them are the result of somebody doing in a gunfight what they trained to do under admin conditions!) As for retaining/catching mags - if you're reloading behind cover, you have the luxury of saving mags, after all if you're just topping off, they'll probably still have a few rounds left you might need later. Otherwise, drop them! If it's a running battle, the winner will police the battlefield - if that's not you, it won't matter if you're short a couple mags when you report to the Pearly Gates!

For those of you with access to it, check out the new SFAUC manual. It is the latest doctrine and it covers all of these basic skills in detail, complete with a training plan. It was designed for trainers and teams. The primary philosophy is KISS and drill the basics. The guy who had the overall responsibility for rewriting it did a conscientious job and all of us who helped are proud of the results. Nuff said. FWIW that's my .02 cents, sorry about the bandwidth but it's an important soapbox with all the guys we have in harm's way nowdays. YIS - Peregrino

**The Reaper** · 04-26-2005, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by bberkley

On a side note, here is a link to a video of Travis Tomasie (he shoots with the AMU now) practicing reloading an Open racegun.

http://www.doublealpha.biz/images/travis_reload.mpg

I met him yesterday.

Very nice young man.

TR

bberkley · 04-26-2005, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I met him yesterday.

Very nice young man.

TR

Did you get to see him shoot, Sir?