01-12-2006, 18:18
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#31
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,841
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smokin Joe
The person who is coming after you is a 280 lb female.
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Yuck!
I guess the front kick is out, since it could get stuck in the fat folds and never come back.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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01-12-2006, 19:20
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#32
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,691
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I think TR has a great point. Temp blindness to create a moment in time and get off the line of attack. Once off the line of attack you can re-engage bye whatever means you see fit.
I would probably stomp the crap out of there closest leg and follow on with a muzzle strike to the head, breast bone, or any other hard target that presented itself.
Longtab, I fully agree with your point of view that you must train in combatives to be proficient. Combatives like shooting can be a perishable skill.
Okay so what else can we do to this woman (short of putting a few rounds in her snot locker) to get her on the ground Right Freaking Now?
What do you guys think of kicking the back of the knee or dropping an elbow to the back of their head?
When I think this thread has run its course I will share the story that promted me to post the scenario.
__________________
"This is the law: The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." - John Steinbeck, "The Law"
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Smokin Joe is offline
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01-12-2006, 20:02
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#33
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Area Commander
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lone Star
Posts: 2,153
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smokin Joe
What do you guys think of kicking the back of the knee or dropping an elbow to the back of their head?
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is she taller than the person in this scenario?
Since woman has lower center of gravity (triangle-like structure), her weight-to-height ratio relative to the persons may dictate how easy and hard she falls IMHO...or is it hard to tell/redundant in the heat of the situation
__________________
"we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope" Rom. 5:3-4
"So we can suffer, and in suffering we know who we are" David Goggins
"Aide-toi, Dieu t'aidera " Jehanne, la Pucelle
Der, der Geld verliert, verliert einiges;
Der, der einen Freund verliert, verliert viel mehr;
Der, der das Vertrauen verliert, verliert alles.
INDNJC
Last edited by frostfire; 01-12-2006 at 20:05.
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frostfire is offline
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01-12-2006, 23:59
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#34
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,823
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smokin Joe
Okay so what else can we do to this woman (short of putting a few rounds in her snot locker) to get her on the ground Right Freaking Now?
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Put a pie on the ground in front of her.
I guess that the swift kick to the balls is out now.
Seriously, as you noted, once they are stunned by the light and you are off the line, if they keep moving, there are a number of techniques to cause the momentum to work against them, from leg sweeps, to knee strikes, to clotheslines, to a quick rap to the back of the head. If they stop, then you can engage with the force of your choice at your convenience, pause to reevaluate, or run away.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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01-13-2006, 00:04
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#35
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Benson, Arizona
Posts: 143
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smokin Joe
When I think this thread has run its course I will share the story that promted me to post the scenario.
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Uh... are you a victim of domestic violence? 
__________________
De Oppresso Liber
We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. ~ George Orwell
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longtab is offline
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01-13-2006, 01:05
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#36
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Kia ora, bro
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 931
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Instead of moving off to the side, what about running at her and crosschecking-like her in the head/above the breasts with your rifle?
I do apologise if that sounds stupid, I'm trying to think outside the box a bit.
__________________
"You destroyed half a city block!"
"That block was already messed up."
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Huey14 is offline
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01-13-2006, 01:57
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#37
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,691
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by longtab
Uh... are you a victim of domestic violence? |
Ouch man that hurt.
__________________
"This is the law: The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." - John Steinbeck, "The Law"
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Smokin Joe is offline
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01-13-2006, 02:02
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#38
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,691
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Huey14
Instead of moving off to the side, what about running at her and crosschecking-like her in the head/above the breasts with your rifle?
I do apologise if that sounds stupid, I'm trying to think outside the box a bit.
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I don't know; could you stop a 280lb female who is coming at you my bullrushing her? I'm about 185lb and in full gear about 210lb. I would probably pass on this technique due to my size vs her size. But if you could pull it off why not. With longtab tipping the scales at about 260 in full gear I'm sure he could pull off the crosscheck or bullrush because there is only about 20lb weight difference, and that could be easily made up for with momentum or force.
__________________
"This is the law: The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." - John Steinbeck, "The Law"
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Smokin Joe is offline
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01-13-2006, 02:11
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#39
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Area Commander
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,691
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Put a pie on the ground in front of her.
I guess that the swift kick to the balls is out now.
Seriously, as you noted, once they are stunned by the light and you are off the line, if they keep moving, there are a number of techniques to cause the momentum to work against them, from leg sweeps, to knee strikes, to clotheslines, to a quick rap to the back of the head. If they stop, then you can engage with the force of your choice at your convenience, pause to reevaluate, or run away.
TR
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I like the idea of a tactical pie holder incase you need to toss one as a distraction device but I'm not sure where to carry one. 
I agree with the force re-direction or displacement.
Okay what do you guys think of these? (Good or a waist of time)
Knee kicks
Trips
Sweeps
Stomps to the side or back of leg
Muzzle strike to the side or back of the head
Muzzle strike to neck (anywhere)
Close line
Elbow to the face while stepping past the person (same principle as a close line but its an elbow strike instead)
Elbow the the side of the neck
Does anyone here have the cajones to go for a joint lock on her?
__________________
"This is the law: The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental." - John Steinbeck, "The Law"
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Smokin Joe is offline
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01-14-2006, 20:29
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#40
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Ant Bed Kicker
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Aus
Posts: 143
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If this woman is wearing a full-skirted dress/hijab, would there be a concern that stomps/kicks to the knees/legs might catch your boot in the material, unbalancing you?
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Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
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Maisy is offline
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01-14-2006, 21:38
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#41
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 261
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You gotta be bullshitting me.
I got the gun.
Poke the knucklehead in the eye, teeth, or throat with the muzzle of your carbine.
Non compliant? FAck you, I ain't a cop, and I'm jocked up doing my job.
YOUR space dominance -- I AM THE GREAT WHITE SHARK AND I AM DOING MY JOB RIGHT HERE AND NOW.
If you truly are kinder and gentler there are some other tools (if you want to risk the sumbitch getting close enough to rassle your Carbine or pistol from you, and your buddies can't shoot him):
Pepper spray.
Stun gun.
Baton to a brachial nerve area.
But that's bullshit cop stuff.
As one of my Team Sergeants told a youngster with an M9, "Make sure that thing's well-oiled."
"Why?"
"So when the bad guy snatches it from you and jams it up your ass the front sight won't tear anything when we pull it out."
Last edited by Sinister; 01-14-2006 at 21:45.
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Sinister is offline
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01-17-2006, 02:55
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#42
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6
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From a Military or PSD point of view:
First off, the individual SHOULD NOT be allowed to get that close. You control the situation not him/her.
Given the scenario and intel, palm heel strike to the chest or muzzle strike to create space and shoot until the threat is down. Hostile threat, Hostile intent. For someone to close distance with you like that there is no other option. But that is just me.
As for LEOs, I have no exprience in that field.
Last edited by JAKE18; 01-17-2006 at 04:06.
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JAKE18 is offline
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01-17-2006, 05:04
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#43
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Captain Obvious
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 67
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hoepoe
Hello all
1) Front kick to abdomen, this will stun as well as create more space
2) Immediately follow through and step in and give him the good news with your rifle butt (or anything else) until no longer a threat.
3) Check surroundings for any further threats
Hoepoe
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Reaper
Bright light to the eyes, sidestep and use non-lethal, hard hands, or impact weapons to put him on the ground.
If a weapon is presented, fire until he is no longer a threat.
TR
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I like both of the above approaches, or perhaps a combination thereof if necessary.
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Bob1984 is offline
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01-20-2006, 02:55
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#44
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Thailand
Posts: 104
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well interesting scenario and a lot of well thought out supplies. My thinking might be a little different, maybe my background (non-LEO) has something to do with it.
1. 2000 on the streets in a foreign hostile country with maybe a curfew in place or at the very least not the time anyone is out shopping.
2. Woman doesn't heed directions (language) - makes agressive threatening moves etc.
3. Plenty of suicide bombers and people who just want to be doing the "will of God" by killing you.
4. Local people know the ROE
if the above is also true then I'm sorry I am not going to get close enough to be a part of the blast radius..
My experience: Once - we captured a prisoner. He was shot in our ambush and crawled off into the brush. I spotted him on our way to the LZ and the tail gunner called out in his language for him to put up his hands. He raised one hand, the tail gunner shot him. Why - he didn't put up two hands. We had a lot of those "willing to die - if they could kill us" type guys too in those days.
Of course in saying that in today's world - yeah you are going to have to explain a lot. But hey I just tell them I'm suffering from PTSD and she looked like a VC to me... 
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Robert "Bru" Taylor
"Fortune Favors the Bold!"
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rwt_bkk is offline
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01-20-2006, 13:06
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#45
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 4,535
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At 280lbs, I think you'd be better off saying she looked like she ate a VC (or two).
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Razor is offline
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