Army approves full fielding of M-107 sniper rifle

[Smokin Joe]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

LR:

None of that matters without the right ammo.

1 MOA gun with 4 MOA ammo is not going to get the job done any better.

Would love to see us try the AMAX rounds or one of the Bore Riders.

TR

Wow, the ammo is that bad?

Sounds like the M-107 overall is a bad idea and a waist of money. I understand it is good as far as an anti-material rifle goes, but if the accuracy is as bad as you guys say it is I think this weapon answers a small problem in the big scheme of things. Sounds like they should have gone with something different to answer more problems or to be a more diverse weapon. What a shame.

[HOLLiS]

LR1947, Thank you for the information. I built my first bench rest rifle in the mid 70's and from there on it has been a learning lesson in methodical control of every variable as humanly possible and patience. Each step is a precise duplication as it was just done. Reloading is a ART in itself. Developing a round, understanding what round and how the outside condition effects it, wind, distance, etc is also a ART, along with the actual shooting. In each shot all variables are maintain to insure a round will follow just like the previous round. Nothing is left to chance. Most shooters do not need the precision that a 1000M shoot needs and reloading generally plays a very little part in their shooting. I told a friend, reloading to shooting is like foreplay to sex. He is a good shooter but does not reload. As with most shooters, they hope for the luck of the draw when they buy ammo hoping that it will work with their rifle. Yes, I buy cheap ammo for those mad minutes or spray and pray target shooting. Accuracy is not a issue, just shooting a lot of rounds is.

The human factor is the other critical part, as you mention. Not to diminish a shooters ability but at extreme distance 1,000 M plus, there are externalities that come into play that will influence a hit or miss. A little at 10 feet is a mile at 1000 M. I think the critical aspect of all of this, is training, training, and training. Regardless of what one is shooting, knowing what it can and cannot do, being very proficient in it's use, and one's emotional and physical self being resigned and capable to do the task at hand with commitment to success, other words PROFESSIONALISM. When money, politics, or ? becomes a factor in the decision making process of training personal, Professionalism erodes and we have amateurs shooters.

[frostfire]

[QUOTE=Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by longrange1947

As far as the Chey Tec, the demo for us and some of the other demos I have heard of, give it about the same planning groups, 4 moa. --- The ammo is also dangerously over pressured and I would be hesitant in shooting it under hot desert conditions. It may be fine at first but he pressures are going to climb.
Rick:
My, there is something strangely familiar about this story.
I am sure the fellow presenting this rifle and ammo made detailed technical claims concerning the design of the rifle and the ammo. Do you recall any of the technical features that were used as selling points for this particular rifle and ammo?
Gene

Originally Posted by longrange1947

Had a 'group' try downloading the Chey Tec ammo to make it safer and it shot like crap.

Gene, you know the dude. I refused to be there becasue I knew there would be an arguement. Of course there was one anyway, but when I get "It would have been a .5 moa group if it had hit" then it is time to hang it up. When I get six shots with only two within measureing distance and they want to measure the group off of those two shots, I call BS. This too has happened at other shots.

Originally Posted by The Reaper

I was there for that demo, as was Peregrino.

I told the shooter (let's call him DM for short) that he should call it a day after he couldn't get it to hold 6" at the 200 yard line.

He refused, and Ed rode him like a borrowed pony. I do not believe that DM is with them any more.

TR

Originally Posted by longrange1947

As far as the Chey Tec, the demo for us and some of the other demos I have heard of, give it about the same planning groups, 4 moa. We got two hits, out of 6, on a 6 x 6 target board at 900 meters with it and that was with the rep shooting, not us. The ammo is also dangerously over pressured and I would be hesitant in shooting it under hot desert conditions. It may be fine at first but he pressures are going to climb.

At 900 meters you are looking at almost 20 inches with a 2 moa gun, now go to 4 moa and consistently hitting a human is going to be difficult at best.

Originally Posted by Footmobile

A friend of mine who was in the only sniper platoon in the Corps to test run the Chey-Tac said the samething about the ammo. Shot great in the cold in Utah on Chey-Tac's range, shot terrible in the heat at 29 Plams before deployment. Said about 1 in 5 primer blow outs when the temps went above 100.

This Chey-tec being discussed, would you gentlemen be referring to the Intervention rifle chambered for .408 Cheyenne Tactical Cartridge?


The same model that was demonstrated during blackwater shootout?


TR Sir, since I believe it's mentioned somewhere here you were present during the LEMAS demo, I assume you were there (and tested it) during the .408 CheyTac demo?

Having neither access nor smackaroos to the rifle, I've been drooling ever since I came across the review years ago. I thought it was a wonder-weapon. Accuracy, range, take-down and all.
I guess you can't believe 100% everything you read and assume it's valid anywhere, anytime. Just plain dumb civvie here

[The Reaper]

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, though the demo we are referring to here was conducted at Ft Bragg for SOTIC.

TR

[longrange1947]

Frostfire, the articles that you are refering to at the end of your post were written by a man that is rather self serving and has a tendency to "stretch" the facts a bit. He is the one that stated, had they hit they would have been within a .5 moa group. He also told me and another site that shooting a .5 moa group with a Savage rifle at 1000 yards was "routine" for him.

Take it from there.

[Team Sergeant]

[QUOTE=frostfire]

Originally Posted by Gene Econ

This Chey-tec being discussed, would you gentlemen be referring to the Intervention rifle chambered for .408 Cheyenne Tactical Cartridge?
The same model that was demonstrated during blackwater shootout?

TR Sir, since I believe it's mentioned somewhere here you were present during the LEMAS demo, I assume you were there (and tested it) during the .408 CheyTac demo?

Having neither access nor smackaroos to the rifle, I've been drooling ever since I came across the review years ago. I thought it was a wonder-weapon. Accuracy, range, take-down and all.
I guess you can't believe 100% everything you read and assume it's valid anywhere, anytime. Just plain dumb civvie here

Frostfire,

Enough of the URL's!

If it is your desire to read what "civilians and amateurs" have to say about rifles and bullets do so, but do us a favor and leave out their links.

And no, I don't care what "Combat, weapons, tactics, equipment etc" magazines you read either. Please save them for the airsoft readers and their forums.

A little insight Frostfire, most of the people promoting "COMBAT" or "COUNTERTERRORIST" weapons, tactics, equipment and training HAVE NEVER BEEN IN ACTUAL COMBAT! NEVER!

And 99.999% of the people training in or stating they have been trained in "counter-terrorist" techniques, tactics and procedures have been trained by the very same people that have NEVER received any REAL training themselves.


Enjoy amateur hour on the other forums, spare us your links.

Team Sergeant

Yes, 99.999%

[frostfire]

busted

Ryoukai, TS.
won't happen again.
Also no, I don't read or subscribe tactical etc. magazines.

[CoLawman]

TS I sent you an attachment of some Nice shots with a .50 cal. Didn't know how to post it so sent it to you via email. Perhaps this might be an excellent thread to post the video on.

[longrange1947]

Would this be the video of the goat killings?

[CoLawman]

Originally Posted by longrange1947

Would this be the video of the goat killings?

This is a video from Afghanistan. Video recorded by the Spotter. OH MY!
The Horror......The Horror. And they are improving on THAT!

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by CoLawman

TS I sent you an attachment of some Nice shots with a .50 cal. Didn't know how to post it so sent it to you via email. Perhaps this might be an excellent thread to post the video on.

You a month (or two) late.... I've seen it a long long time ago....

[CoLawman]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

You a month (or two) late.... I've seen it a long long time ago....

Should have known! Will accept demotion to ASSet!

[longrange1947]

TS - Is it the flying bodies? If it is they are rams. Look at the first one and you can see the horns, same with the third one, forth one you can make out the hind quarter and shoulder as it moves into postion on the ridge line.

We got that video some time ago.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by longrange1947

TS - Is it the flying bodies? If it is they are rams. Look at the first one and you can see the horns, same with the third one, forth one you can make out the hind quarter and shoulder as it moves into postion on the ridge line.

We got that video some time ago.

Rgr, one and the same.

I also saw it a long time ago....

[Cyclops]

Gentleman,

First of all, This is a very excellent thread. I'm learning volumes.

My experiences with the M107 were both good and bad. I was a Sniper Section Leader in Iraq for a Light Inf. Bn. and we were issued 3 M107's. Other than firing an M82 at School this was my first experience with the .50 cal. SWS. When we were mobing at Ft. Drum we were given WWII era .50 ammo (ball) to zero with. Man we couldn't hit shit out to 500 meters consistently. I blamed the ammo. We then deployed and recieved Mk211 Mod 0. We still couldn't maintain decent groups, 3 MOA was the norm. I was so GD pissed off that I zeroed it to the best of my ability then set that bitch aside. My BC was one of those officers that brought into all of the inflated kills stories and he thought that me alone with my M107 could win the war. I had to take that bitch on all sorts of missions. One day I was in an ambush position and 4 BG's presented themselves at 900m. I fired my first round and it hit approx 4" above one of their heads smacking into a concrete wall. The funny thing is that the guy next to him went down (turns out a piece of concrete from the wall was broken loose by the round and entered his abdomin, he died several days later). I adjusted my POA and fired the second round at the same guy and it did hit him with very effective Terminal ballistics. After that the weapon mis-fired every other round. I wanted to take that M107 and throw it in a ditch with an incendiary grenade. We learned the limitations of that particular weapon system early and I didn't really use it again unless we were overwatching a TCP and were planning on using it for stopping vehicles at 500m or so. It is also important to note that it was our experience that the API and Mk211 Mod 0 is very corrosive and if you don't scrub the shit out of your chamber/barrell every 10-20 rds or so you will get malfunctions (like I experienced). The army does need to provide snipers with a better cleaning kit for the M107, the half Otis half USGI kit wasn't cutting it. The real weak link was lack of solvents strong enough to break down the build up associated with the .50 ammo.