Super pack' of 400 Wolves terrorise remote Russian town

[TOMAHAWK9521]

Originally Posted by Buffalobob

I always root for the wolves. Humans have very few natural predators any more for population control and there is a need to restore the law of natural selection. The earth is way over populated with idiots. We need lots more wolves.

http://www.aonmag.com/article.php?id=1901&cid=188

The major flaw with the Wolf Reintroduction Program in the US is that they forgot to reintroduce the wolves' primary food source-Bison. I'm no expert but from what I have read, the wolf populations have gone completely askew from their projected models. They have already moved as far south as central Colorado as of a year or two ago. These wolf populations will annihilate the elk, deer and sheep populations.

[JJ_BPK]

Originally Posted by mark46th

I hunt pigs in Central California. There is no limit on wild pigs in California but you do need a tag for each pig you take. I have a hunt scheduled for March 12th and 13th. Can you say "Home-made Sausage"? The biggest one I have seen was about 400 pounds. My hunting buddy has seen them up to 600 pounds further North in Mendocino County.

Mark, et all

The last time I did black powder for deer & hogs was at the Three Lakes Management Area in Central Florida,, Just South of the Orlando area.

They limit access, ONE GATE. The F&G team counted all in and out and did "samples" of all game taken. You could not gut in the field. You had to wait until you came out.

Anyway, the F&G insisted that you wear gloves and immediately washed after gutting because ALL the pigs had blood born pathogens that were very nasty. Kidney & liver failure if not treated properly.

As I remember we were given a slip of paper and told to hand it to the ER doc if we came down with Cold like symptoms??

We were told it is hot weather problem and generally does not bother hogs from cold climate areas?? It was not trichinosis, but a viral/bacterial type.

Watching the F&G guys & gals take liver & gal bladder samples like it was a big city operating room made me a little leery??

Do you have the same warnings??

[badshot]

Originally Posted by TOMAHAWK9521

The major flaw with the Wolf Reintroduction Program in the US is that they forgot to reintroduce the wolves' primary food source-Bison. I'm no expert but from what I have read, the wolf populations have gone completely askew from their projected models. They have already moved as far south as central Colorado as of a year or two ago. These wolf populations will annihilate the elk, deer and sheep populations.

For not being an expert sounds like you got it right...

They have also migrated to OR, WA, and Utah. A researcher in Yellowstone has noted they are killling the Lions and other predators for sport and/or competition reduction. In one incident a female and three sub-adults were killed. Talk about a rodent, skunk, bunny, porcupine, etc. population explosion down the road.

The only exception is the Mexican Gray Wolf program in Arizona/New Mexico that has been going on since the mid-90's, though that could change as well. As of 2010 there where 50 with 2 breeding pairs.

Makes you wonder what the hell they were thinking or weren't...



.

[Penn]

There is no way a canine population can reach those numbers and hunt in a unified manner. It contradicts pack structure and order based on alpha male, alpha female. It presents impossible circumstance to manage pack interactions and hierarchical structures.

In a word: BULLSHIT!!!!

The Pack

Domestic dogs do well in group-living situations and are fairly flexible as to the arrangements. In the wild, the typical number of wild dogs or wolves in a fully-fledged pack ranges between eight and 15. The group usually consists of related adult males, related adult females (that are unrelated to the males), and their offspring. Order is maintained by means of an almost linear hierarchical relationship between pack members, an arrangement known as a dominance hierarchy. In essence, this means that there are leaders and followers. The most dominant individuals control the resources and subordinates must defer or face the consequences.

http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/bas...oks_videos.asp

[Dusty]

I would not want to have to shoot a wolf. I don't even like the thought of killing 'yotes, but they're coming down into the back yard, now-and there are no natural predators to balance out that situation other than the Boat-tailed Hollow Point.

[akv]

Originally Posted by Penn

There is no way a canine population can reach those numbers and hunt in a unified manner. It contradicts pack structure and order based on alpha male, alpha female. It presents impossible circumstance to manage pack interactions and hierarchical structures.

Sir,

This is a logical point, and I'm no wolf expert. However IIRC, there might be some modern historical precedent for this type of activity on the Eastern Front during the Great War. In the Kovno area of Lithuania, a temporary truce was declared between Russian and German forces in the trenches, for the purposes of dealing with large numbers of starving wolves, apparently killing several hundred. The thought of modern armies with heavy weapons taking this step was an attention getter. The recent story could be a hoax, it could be numerous packs, or it can be an instance of nature adapting to desperate circumstances. Enclosed in the link is a 1917 NY Times article on the episode.


http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...DE&oref=slogin

[badshot]

It could be BS, but could also imagine them to be starving if they just eat rabbit.
(people die of protein poisoning)

In any event, here is some authoritative info on Wolf's.

http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/wolf/naturalhistory.shtml

Notice their diet in the West is 75% Elk (some being as big as horses) and average pack size is 10.6 animals.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Penn

There is no way a canine population can reach those numbers and hunt in a unified manner. It contradicts pack structure and order based on alpha male, alpha female. It presents impossible circumstance to manage pack interactions and hierarchical structures.

In a word: BULLSHIT!!!!



http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/bas...oks_videos.asp

Mother Alligators were long thought (by scientists) to be cannibals, eating their own young. This was witnessed hundreds of times and until recently (last 50 years.) It is now well known that the mother gators are gathering up their young in their mouths to protect them. They will also assist in breaking the eggs and digging out the little ones stuck in the nest.

My point is that even the scientists can make colossal observational mistakes, especially when dealing with carnivores.

Dolphins, sharks etc hunt in super packs (hundreds to thousands) when the prey presents itself in vast numbers..

This wolf super-pack theory would not surprise me in the least.

[Go Devil]

If the "Circle of Life" as we know it, was followed for reintroduction of flora and fauna instead of what is visually stimulating or what is dwindling in numbers, the programs would probably be more successful.

That's my opinion.

I'm sure the issue at hand with those pesky wolves is associated with the following link... as well as many other things.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articl...ood-Costs.aspx


Damn that Russian drought.

[badshot]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

My point is that even the scientists can make colossal observational mistakes, especially when dealing with carnivores.

Seems to occur quite regularly, I can think of several just here by MT Biologists. Or Global Warming, or Vaccines cause Autism.....

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

Dolphins, sharks etc hunt in super packs (hundreds to thousands) when the prey presents itself in vast numbers..

This wolf super-pack theory would not surprise me in the least.

Dido...
There are many more examples of species that are either stressed or as TS pointed out; exposed to vast numbers of prey that will tolerate each others presence. Another that comes to mind are Bear, normally loners that give each other wide births, except during events like a salmon run or a good garbage dump.

Conversely Penn, I'd have to agree that it would be unlikely (not impossible, that conclusion would be subjective) that one alpha pair would, in such an instance, control up to 40 individual packs. If the event is true, it is more probable that the packs acted individually in close proximity or some packs even combined.

In any event, still an interesting story. You can bet any researchers who can get there, will, and hopefully provide some interesting insight.

Good post Dusty.

[LarryW]

Here's a 400 pounder this fellow nailed in Texas. Have heard of stories about folks arming themselves when they walk out to their cars at night because of the feral hog problem. Of course, they may also be doing some multi-tasking...

400 pound from Texas.jpg

[Pete]

Originally Posted by LarryW

Here's a 400 pounder this fellow nailed in Texas. Have heard of stories about folks arming themselves when they walk out to their cars at night because of the feral hog problem. Of course, they may also be doing some multi-tasking...

Attachment 17944

They always like to stand behind the hog. In this case it looks to be about 4 feet +/-. Doing that makes the hog look bigger.

[Dusty]

Originally Posted by Pete

They always like to stand behind the hog. In this case it looks to be about 4 feet +/-. Doing that makes the hog look bigger.

Works with shellcrackers, as well.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by badshot

Seems to occur quite regularly, I can think of several just here by MT Biologists. Or Global Warming, or Vaccines cause Autism.....

Good post Dusty.

Vaccines causing Autism was a complete scam and very deliberate, real doctors pointed out that long ago that the individual and the research was complete BS.

Global Warming is a political and money driven unsubstantiated theory.

My point was about the real, unintentional mistakes scientists make, not scams.

[Chris Cram]

Originally Posted by Team Sergeant

My point was about the real, unintentional mistakes scientists make, not scams.

My favorite scientists all had a level of humility, perspective, and caution with respect to what they ‘Knew’ was true.

Here is a thread of time and understanding… They all ‘Knew’ they were right.

Aristotle (384-322 BCE) Geocentric, static, steady state, finite extent, infinite time
Ptolemy (~140 CE) Geocentric Universe
Copernicus (1514) Heliocentric Universe
Albert Einstein (1917) Static, bounded, finite.
Einstein & DeSitter (1932) Expanding flat space.
Bondi & Gold (1948) Expanding, steady state, infinite
Steinhardt, Turok (2002) Expanding and contracting in cycles
Baum & Frampton (2007) Dark Energy, zero entropy…

Just imagine what we will know tomorrow…