Reason for age minimum

[Mr Furious]

Originally Posted by cback0220

I am not an old guy yet or even a guy with alot of experience, but I graduated last year at 21. I got Selected way back when I was 18. If I were you I would go be an infantryman in Ranger Battallion and would come to SF when you are an E-5. If you were to do that you would learn a hell of a lot, and be on a better footing and be more of an asset to your team initially.

VERY sound advice.

There is something to be said about a base of reference to increase your chance of success: When I went in right out of HS I was a commo guy assigned to an Infantry unit in the early 80’s. The CPT would lead me around the countryside by a handset. I was a city kid with no clue about tactics, land navigation, or shooting skills beyond basic trng. I did know when the 2LTs would get the company lost as frustrations would mount. I also knew that steak for chow and the words “movement to contact” meant nothing more to me than a long walk with that heavy tick on my back while the CPT carried nothing more than an LBE and a 1911; resentment builds in the 18 year old mind after 6 miles of walking in circles with a lost 2LT in front. I would sit in the CP tent during troop leading procedures (I had no idea that is what they were called at the time) watching the radio while those same 2LTs were making plans with the CPT reading from some little flip page “handbook”. I observed as he would coach those young leaders. It was great for me as over the next two years I got to hear and observe all of this over and over; groundhog day. I also got to hear stories from that CPT who was a QP, and was back in an Infantry unit to do his company command time; as this was prior to the days of SF being a branch. Those stories and his leadership inspired me and kindled the fire to do greater things. I had another great mentor who took me under his wings and in a very short time imparted some wisdom and equipped me with just enough to find my way in the darkness (literally).

I left the Infantry and went to SFQC when I was 22 years old. It was during one of the early classes on SUT when all of a sudden the 100 quadrillion-watt light bulb switched on…”THATS what those guys were talking about in that little CP tent”. Everything came together and suddenly my world made perfect sense. The course had its way with me at times, but in the end I wound up doing pretty well there; then the real journey for me began. A decade later that young CPT would go on to command 2/7th SFG before moving on again, and my land nav guru retired a little over a year ago as a CW5 and one of the most senior guys in 10th SFG. I took away many lessons from them, but none more important to me than having the patience to provide someone else with a “base of reference”, as they did with me. Can’t build a base or get mentored unless you march down that path first, then your chances for success increase exponentially.

[Warrior-Mentor]

Originally Posted by ParkerB

Hello

I searched the forum for threads that answered my questions, but I could not find anything. 1) I am wondering why there is an age minimum of twenty to enlist under an 18X contract. I understand that the Army wants an ODA to be comprised of very mature people, however other SOF units such as the Navy SEALs or Rangers have no such age minimum. 2) Are there exceptions to the age minimum? In Dick Couch's book Chosen Soldier, he points out that there are a few people at the SFQC who are younger than twenty. I understand that the book documented a 2004 training class, so the age requirements could have changed since then. 3) Is a person's age not relevant if they are already in the Army? According to the Special Operations Recruiting Battalion's Special Forces page, the Army is accepting PFC's for SFAS. For instance, if I were to enlist as an infantryman with an airborne contract, would I be able to attend SFAS after completion of OSUT and airborne school as an eighteen year old?

Thanks, and I apologize if any of these questions have already been answered in other threads.

Three words: Young Guys Quit.

It's that simple. When we restarted the 18X Program (formerly known as the "SF Baby program"), USAJFKSWCS paid attention and studied who was succeeding and who wasn't. The biggest commonality (to a point) was age. It was bell curve. 24-27 was the most successful ages IIRC. Older were still more successful than younger. Age, in this case, was and is an asset. Older people are more deliberate in their decision making - and more committed once the decision is made.

APFT Score was a large indicator as well. We could help with APFT scores through training. You can't do anything with age, but wait - or restrict through age minimums....

[Geenie]

Gentlemen,

thank you for sharing your opinions and experiences.

I'd like to ask a question, if I may: If most of you recommend serving as a regular infantryman (or ranger) before coming into SF, who do you think should sign up for 18x?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Geenie

... who do you think should sign up for 18x?

The question is not who do I think should sign up for 18X but - do you think you should sign up for 18X? Where is your mind at?

While I got the SF Enlistment option in a roundabout way - I didn't know I had enlisted for the Green Berets - there was no quit in me.

My group did Basic, AIT and Jump School back to back although we didn't know it - different companies and MOSs. At Jump School we had to take the SF Swim test and got together for the first time. There was 11 of us. All 18ish and all SF Enlistment options.

We finished Jump School and got on the Bus for Bragg with the 82nd guys. 24 hours after getting on the bus and less than 12 hours after hitting Ft Bragg we were out at Camp MacKall for Phase I. A few days later I was sitting next to one of those 11 guys. He was looking at his hands and said "I quit" in a soft voice, got up, grabbed his ruck, walked over to the TAC Shack - and quit. In the next few days 5 more of the 11 followed him - all similar - just quit.

Me and four others remained and finished all 3 phases.

A strong mind will carry a weak body further than a weak mind will carry a strong body. (not my quote)

In addition to the skills observed during selection does the "Average" 18-19 year old have the mind to go with the body? The Army, at this time, period has decided No.

"The carryall for Ft Bragg will be departing from the TAC shack in 15 minutes"

Still remember that statement that came over the loudspeaker before the morning's first formation. We'd be in the front leaning rest knocking 'um out as the van was loaded with the quiters. So easy, just pick up your ruck, take a few steps and you could join them.

[cback0220]

Originally Posted by Warrior-Mentor

Three words: Young Guys Quit.

It's that simple. When we restarted the 18X Program (formerly known as the "SF Baby program"), USAJFKSWCS paid attention and studied who was succeeding and who wasn't. The biggest commonality (to a point) was age. It was bell curve. 24-27 was the most successful ages IIRC. Older were still more successful than younger. Age, in this case, was and is an asset. Older people are more deliberate in their decision making - and more committed once the decision is made.

APFT Score was a large indicator as well. We could help with APFT scores through training. You can't do anything with age, but wait - or restrict through age minimums....

Another thing that goes along with the younger guys is that alot of them that do not quit make other poor decisions, (i.e getting drunk before PT, getting DUI's, mouthing off, losing their military bearing) These are things that will get you kicked out of the course before you have even done anything. Some younger guys forget basic military discipline when they get selected, for no other reason than they think they are made men and are set. When in fact nothing could be further from the truth. I have learned more the 8 months I have been on a team than I ever did as a student.

Do older guys make the same mistakes? Yes, but as a whole younger guys have a worse habit of doing than older guys.

Another thing to consider is what has an 18 year old really done in his life? Nothing really. Playing sports, learning to drive a car, and graduating high school are not really huge accomplishments and don't develop character. How do you KNOW that this is what you want. You simply don't/can't KNOW, and knowing is what you have to do.

I normally don't post much but this one hits closer to home cause I was an 18y/o kid who did it. The fact that it worked out for me does not mean that it will work out for everyone.

[Mike]

I agree on the concept of age requirements.
Reality can be interesting.

I was 20 when I graduated SFTG in 1967.

A majority of us were about the same age.

Most of us went straight to VN or within 6 months.

We served on A Teams, Mike Force, and a lot of "kids" ran SOG, some even as 1-0s.

Overall we rose to the occaision and did good.

We also didn't have any of the hellweek stuff.
I recall we were just naturally tough guys who were somewhat smart.

Some of us stayed in and had outstanding careers.

I still like the age requirements, but sometimes you have a pool of outstanding people lined up.

Sad to waste them.

[JJ2K1]

Originally Posted by Geenie

who do you think should sign up for 18x?

Well I just wanted to add from my experience that some of the best 18x guys that made it on teams were guys that were a little older and had some other life experiences other than just graduating from high school. They had either a college education, or worked in various fields of employment that even though they were not military related, they still brought something helpful and or useful to the team.

Maybe another reason for the age minimum would be to get some of the 17-18 year olds coming into the Army to at least get some basic soldiering and Army experience under their belt so you don't run into the situations that I've seen where you have young 21 year old 18xs who get promoted to E-6, but do not know basic soldiering things that an E-6 in the Army should know.

[Richard]

Just for consideration - recent brain development studies over the past decade have shown that forebrain [higher cognitive functions, including the ability to concentrate, reason, think in abstract form (logic), and judgment] development (especially in males) normally continues to progress and mature throughout the teen years until somewhere in the 20-27 year range.

Time and a number of scientific journals have run articles on the developing teen brain and behavior.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/sc...conv.html?_r=1

Areas involved in planning and decision-making, including the prefrontal cortex -- the cognitive or reasoning area of the brain important for controlling impulses and emotions -- appear not to have yet reached adult dimension during the early twenties.

http://www.sfn.org/index.aspx?pagena...olescent_brain

Richard