Change the PT Program Thread

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by The Reaper

First, not everyone is troll-sized. I used to carry your full body weight in my ruck.

first he needs ritalin, now he's a troll...where's the love...?

but back to the question du jour...a 50# ruck, 20km, 3hrs...EIB standards...i suspect that would be a point of departure for determining fitness for a dismounted infantry type...heck, i seem to recall a speed march was 5 miles, 50minutes, LCE and weapon...that's another task-oriented test...

to me the test isn't as much the issue as the mind set...the PT test, as it stood when i was in, was no less combat related than the weapons qualification tables we fired from a concrete lined foxhole...both are raw indicators of fitness and marksmanship proficiency at a minimal standard...

i am not comfortable that Big Army can direct the necessary training at unit level...a mountain detachment's conditioning requirements are very different from a combat swim detachment's (speaking of areas where i have experience, here)...a mountain teams's conditioning requirements for winter ops are a little different than they are for summer ops...

i would opine that commanders at the operational level (A-detachment) should be given the latitude and held accountable for that training...

my $0.02...

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Jack Moroney

IIRC they had a track breaking timed task, ammo loading and hauling tasks, hefting fuel cans, and some other associated events. It was more akin to a team timed event sort of like military stakes-but then, as I said, they were tankers

As much as I like to give tankers grief, all those tasks you mentioned are certainly no easy physical feat (especially if you break track 2' deep in Hohenfels 'glue-mud'), and I do give them credit for being able to accomplish those tasks, on little sleep, in the middle of the night...especially when I got to watch them do it through NVGs while checking my dismounts' defensive positions.

[Jack Moroney (RIP)]

[QUOTE=Razor] Hohenfels 'glue-mud'QUOTE]

Ach du Lieber Himmel-Hohenfels! The only place in the world where you can eat dust, be up to you 4th POC in mud and water, the sun will be shinning, the wind blowing and it will be snowing like hell!

[Cincinnatus]

Except for the dust that sounds like Vermont in March! LOL

Outside my lane here, but I overheard sev'l Norwich cadets (at the Tunbridge Worlds' Fair) having a conversation along these lines (i.e., what should be done to improve PT so it would better represent actual tasks on the battlefield) they seemed to think that adding dips (similar to pulling oneself over a wall), Hindu squats (can't recall why), and carrying a sandfilled duffel bag (simulating a wounded buddy) up sev'l flights of stairs were good ideas. The dips and Hindu squats would, I should think be something that could be easily added, though the duffel bag would require stairs (and I would think, weigh a lot less than a wounded soldier w/ gear.)

Do I understand correctly that the Army tests push ups, but not pull ups and the Marines test pull ups only? Is there a particular reason for this?

TIA

[incommin]

Originally Posted by Ambush Master

It was Hon Tre Island in Nha Trang Bay. There's a luxury resort there now!!

Well there you go....... I was lost my first two weeks in country..... And very glad I was in sufficient shape to only have to do that walk once!

Jim

[sg1987]

Originally Posted by Razor

As much as I like to give tankers grief, all those tasks you mentioned are certainly no easy physical feat (especially if you break track 2' deep in Hohenfels 'glue-mud'), and I do give them credit for being able to accomplish those tasks, on little sleep, in the middle of the night...especially when I got to watch them do it through NVGs while checking my dismounts' defensive positions.

Hohenfels, That’s a name I haven’t heard in a while. Spent some wonderful winter vacations there.
Took a nice helicopter ride there once and was dropped off into really deep snow for a nice long stroll. I had the pleasure of humpimg a TOW T&E for some 11H’s in addition to my gear. No one bothered to tell the cherry private that canteens were to be carried INSIDE the parka!
After the stroll our tour guide allowed a water break and to my surprise I now have two nice canteens of ice. With the steam rising off my head I hit the prone and began my imitation of a snowplow. That’s when the tour guide begins to lecture me about the importance of not eating snow. Oh for the good times…

[Razor]

Getting slightly back on topic, I can't exactly recall but sometime around late 1999/early 2000 the Army Physical Fitness School released the draft 3-25.20 on their website that was to replace the old FM 21-20, "Physical Fitness Training". 3-25.20 directly addressed the concept of functional fitness, and suggested a complete overhaul of both the APFT and the guidance for regular unit training. An example of this change in mindset can be seen in Chapter 1 (PRT Philosophy): "Army PRT must incorporate those types of training activities that directly support warfighting tasks. This is why PRT activities must include such fundamental skills as climbing, crawling and running that contribute to success in the more complex skills of obstacle negotiation, combatives and militarymovement."

Less than a year after it hit the street, the expected publish date changed from 12 months to "pending", and shortly thereafter the document was pulled from the school's website, with little heard about it since. Even if the Marines weren't the "first" to get the ball rolling, at least they're closer to implementation of a functional fitness program than the Army (as a whole) seemed to be able to get.

[bailaviborita]

How about doing the JAN 21 Crossfit workout as a functional test:

For time:
50 Box jump, 24 inch box
50 Jumping pull-ups
50 Kettlebell swings, 1 pood
Walking Lunge, 50 steps
50 Knees to elbows
50 Push press, 45 pounds
50 Back extensions
50 Wall ball shots, 20 pound ball
50 Burpees
50 Double unders

No resting. 40 minutes for me.

[smanders]

We used to adapt the Crossfit workouts to whatever we had laying around the hooch. That is until the "Powers-That-Be" saw a couple NCOs vomiting during PT and put the kibosh on that.

Too bad, because the stuff works for just about ever occupation...

[Surgicalcric]

Originally Posted by smanders

We used to adapt the Crossfit workouts... ...until the "Powers-That-Be" saw a couple NCOs vomiting during PT and put the kibosh on that...

You guys not explain to "the powers that be" vomitting is a good thing...

Crip

[bailaviborita]

Gee- so if only that SF MSG had vomited instead of had a heart attack, they'd ban the 2 mile APFT run!

[Books]

A buddy of mine who ran cross country at Montana State U. said that if you didn't vomit at the end of the race, you didn't run hard enough. . .

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Books

A buddy of mine who ran cross country at Montana State U. said that if you didn't vomit at the end of the race, you didn't run hard enough. . .

Finished many a PT test that way.

As long as you don't spew till after the 2 mile run, you are GTG.

Losing it during the Sit-Up event is bound to make paople unhappy. Especially the person holding your feet.

TR

[Razor]

Originally Posted by bailaviborita

Gee- so if only that SF MSG had vomited instead of had a heart attack, they'd ban the 2 mile APFT run!

Wouldn't have made a difference, most likely. We had a relatively young 19D (24yo, IIRC) die in 1994 after a Scout plt run when I was in Germany. Congenital heart failure according to the autopsy; nothing anyone could have done, :...and the Army goes 2-mile running along."

[smanders]

From TR:

"Losing it during the Sit-Up event is bound to make people unhappy."...

That is HILARIOUS! Thankfully I've never seen it happen.