Deadly pocketknives become a $1 Billion Business

[Peregrino]

GRP knives have been around for years. I've had a couple of the original Choate daggers since the early 80's (don't know exactly where I stored them - but I've got'em somewhere). Cavalry Arms was giving out GRP Tanto's as party favors at the SHOT Show - too bad their lawyers made them disable the .45 barrel bushing wrench "'cause somebody might hurt themselves" if they slipped. I like multi-purpose tools. Now I'm forced to keep track of two CA toys - but I do appreciate the wrench they passed out with the letter opener - it can't mar the finish on my Kimber. Bottom line - I'm not afraid of people with plastic knives. I am afraid of people who would restrict my ability to take whatever means I feel prudent to ensure my personal defense - and enforce their restrictions with restrictive ordinances, criminalization, invasion of privacy, metal detectors, and threats of incarceration and application of lethal force. And then have the audacity to tell me that they are not responsible for ensuring my safety - and support that contention with a Supreme Court ruling. Does anyone remember the distinction between a citizen and a subject? Maybe Claire Wolfe ought to be recommended reading. My .02 - Peregrino

[Cincinnatus]

I don't own a plastic knife, can't see a need for a plastic knife, and don't want to get wrapped around the axle on this particular issue.

However, I am vehemently opposed to the notion of hoplophobic prohibitionists dictating what someone else may need to defend themselves. As that same article implies, there are those who would restrict knives that can be opened with one hand - as clearly anyone who would want such a thing is up to no good. The burden is not on the armed individual to justify his being armed, double edged knives, plastic knives, one handed opening knives, greater than ten round magazines, flash hiders, bayonet lugs, lockpicks, or what have you, need not indicate ill intent.

Life is not safe. Attempts to legislate it safe are doomed to failure and seem to breed further attempts to legislate it safe in a vicious cycle of stupidity.

There is also in these laws (many of them anyway) a dangerous double standard. If I read the law correctly, it is now illegal to have a Swiss Army Knife on your person in the city of Boston. Now I'm in my forties, more than a little gray in my hair, tend to dress well, and white. It's very unlikely that if found with a SAK in my possession that anything will happen to me. (In fact, I was in the Federal Building in Boston and handed over a SAK before going through security, there was a little handwringing on the part of one woman security guard over the blade length, but it was returned to me and I went on with what I was doing.)

I have to wonder though if I'd been a black teenager, or was wearing a Grateful Dead t-shirt (or the Che t-shirt I borrowed from NDD ), if I'd have had more trouble. The law should apply to all or apply to none. DC, I'm told, allows Congress critters to be armed, but it is nearly impossible for a private citizen to get a carry permit. I find that disturbing.

[Bill Harsey]

England has banned the carry of any pocket or pen knife unless your job directly depends on it. Scotland, IIRC, is considering the total ban of kitchen knives.
How's the crime rate over there doing?

How's the crime rate in Washington D.C.?

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

England has banned the carry of any pocket or pen knife unless your job directly depends on it. Scotland, IIRC, is considering the total ban of kitchen knives.
How's the crime rate over there doing?

How's the crime rate in Washington D.C.?

I was recently in England and I believe that I heard on the news that the sentence for carrying a knife (without any other crime) in England was 4 years incarceration.

You are right Bill, doesn't seem to have any effect on the criminals.

TR

[mike-munich]

There are only a few illegal blades in Germany.

throwing stars (or shurikans)
butterfly knifes
fist knifes/daggers
and "falling" blade knifes (also known as paratrooper knifes)

As for the crime statistics here, we see neither a decrease nor an increase in violent crimes with those blades after they became illegal 2 years ago.

All other blades, such as bootknives or switchblades, are legal in Germany.

[Smokin Joe]

Originally Posted by uboat509

Chances are those people would be working for the government and therefore not subject to prohibitions on this kind of stuff.

Right...... So when my buddy who works NARC's goes to court with a sh*thead dope dealer that he has befriended, do you think my buddy is going to flash his badge to get through security? No, of course not but instead he should just go unarmed? No. But he works for the government so he should have access to these plastic knives. Okay cool so lets further examine this. We have a small NARC team as a result getting them to purchase anything out of their budget is ridiculous, and they wouldn't go through the ringer to get plastic knives for the guys and gals because it is not worth the effort. Not to mention if only .gov types can have said knives what does my buddy do when the above mentioned sh*thead finds the knife because my buddy got pat searched for a wire on a dope buy?

Ah, I'm over complicating this, bottom line I can see a legitmate use for having an open market on these knives. Personally I don't have a use for them but some do. As far as the legitimate use for these goes, they are cheap, light weight, and fill a niche. Can they be used against us... sure but what can't be used against us? I'm not worried about the idiot who gets through security with a knife. I'm serious I'm not, I could give a shit... I'm worried about the idiot who walks up to security with a bomb on his chest, the kid who goes to school or the guy who goes to court with an AK-47 and 5 magazines.....ready to do the deed.

[uboat509]

I'm not sure I understand your argument Joe. Of course cops should have access to to these knives if they need them just like they have access to lots of things that the general public doesn't.

SFC W

[Bill Harsey]

uBoat509,
Joe's point is this:
If only cops are allowed to have a certain knife or article and that cop who is deep undercover has that knife or article found on them when searched by a bad guy, bad guy has found proof he's got a cop.
Result: Cover compromised or blown, cop is at high personal risk of injury or death and all the police work on that investigation is flushed down the toilet.

Word on the street travels at light speed and bad guys find out what cops carry and use, especially if that item is restricted to law enforcement only.

[uboat509]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

uBoat509,
Joe's point is this:
If only cops are allowed to have a certain knife or article and that cop who is deep undercover has that knife or article found on them when searched by a bad guy, bad guy has found proof he's got a cop.
Result: Cover compromised or blown, cop is at high personal risk of injury or death and all the police work on that investigation is flushed down the toilet.

Word on the street travels at light speed and bad guys find out what cops carry and use, especially if that item is restricted to law enforcement only.

I would say, not neccessarily. He could always claim he got it illegally and still maintain plausible deniability. I would think he would have a harder time explaining why he had a plastic knife. If the bad guys are using some type of metal detector then they will want to know why you are trying to sneak a weapon past their security. If they don't have metal detectors then why not have a metal knife? And how much protection is a plastic knife anyway in that situation? Ah, well. I'm probably overthinking this anyway.

SFC W

[The Reaper]

These knives have been sold for many years.

How many people here have any personal knowledge of one being used to commit a criminal act?

TR

[mike-munich]

especially if that item is restricted to law enforcement only.

I fully agree with SFC W. Crooks usually don´t care weather a certain item such as a knive or firearm is legal or if he needs a permit. Working undercover and being caught by criminals with such an item, I would always claim that I got it illegally.

Looking at the crime statistics one will see that violent crimes are hardly commited with legal firearms or knives. 99.8% of the cases involve illegal items here.
A ban of certain firearms, blades or even magazine capacity wouldn´t change a thing.

So far I wouldn´t know of a case that involves one of the plastic knives or CIA daggers. They are around, but they wouldn´t show up in the statistic, since they are legal here.

[Smokin Joe]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

uBoat509,
Joe's point is this:
If only cops are allowed to have a certain knife or article and that cop who is deep undercover has that knife or article found on them when searched by a bad guy, bad guy has found proof he's got a cop.
Result: Cover compromised or blown, cop is at high personal risk of injury or death and all the police work on that investigation is flushed down the toilet.

Word on the street travels at light speed and bad guys find out what cops carry and use, especially if that item is restricted to law enforcement only.

Ya, what he said.

Thanks Bill!

Originally Posted by mike-munich

I fully agree with SFC W. Crooks usually don´t care weather a certain item such as a knive or firearm is legal or if he needs a permit. Working undercover and being caught by criminals with such an item, I would always claim that I got it illegally.

Looking at the crime statistics one will see that violent crimes are hardly commited with legal firearms or knives. 99.8% of the cases involve illegal items here.
A ban of certain firearms, blades or even magazine capacity wouldn´t change a thing.

So far I wouldn´t know of a case that involves one of the plastic knives or CIA daggers. They are around, but they wouldn´t show up in the statistic, since they are legal here.

Work U.C. sometime and your opinion will change. You wake up paranoid thinking "is today the day they catch me?" maintaining "plausible deniability" is great in COURT, bad guys don't play by those rules. If BG's think they have a NARC on there hands one of two things happens: 1. you lose the case because the bad guys won't do business with you or 2. Your dead onsight.

So how strong is your "plausible deniability" now? Would you be willing to bet your life on it?

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by Bill Harsey

If only cops are allowed to have a certain knife or article and that cop who is deep undercover has that knife or article found on them when searched by a bad guy, bad guy has found proof he's got a cop.
Result: Cover compromised or blown, cop is at high personal risk of injury or death and all the police work on that investigation is flushed down the toilet.

hopefully, a cop working deep cover is smart enough to know what not to carry...you think they'd have a checklist...

[NousDefionsDoc]

I disagree with the entire concept of "Law Enforcement Only".

[Roguish Lawyer]

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

I disagree with the entire concept of "Law Enforcement Only".

+1