Magazine Retention

[eggroll]

hehe! I would if I could, got a service tech coming in this afternoon to REBOOT my sewing machine, and also to look at my other machine.

EGG

[Trip_Wire (RIP)]

I assume we are not talking about pistols here, as I always treat them different then I would other magazines, especially if they seem to work well in my pistol.

I wonder if the Clinton assault weapons ban and magazines restricted to 10 rounds could have anything to do with the Army's accountability mentallity in CONUS prior to the lifting of the ban. I suspect that 30 Rd Mags would have sold for a good price in those days.

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by Trip_Wire

I wonder if the Clinton assault weapons ban and magazines restricted to 10 rounds could have anything to do with the Army's accountability mentallity in CONUS prior to the lifting of the ban.

I was active duty through slick willies term. His ban had zero impact on our accountability of any mlitary equipment, zero.

Trust me when I say slick willie was much more interested in relaxing the "rules" for the "butt pirates" in the military than focusing on how we do business.

TS

[Peregrino]

Gene - We've kicked this question around before on some of the pistol threads. I am a firm advocate of dropping expended mags - most of the time. I have to concede that circumstances will dictate TTPs especially with regard to retaining/discarding expended magazines. (Big Boyz ought to be smart/experienced enough to know when to do what!) In all fairness it's been a long time since I was in "indian country" and things have changed a bit. I was never where I couldn't go back to pick up discards or get a resupply. (LATAM is/was not RVN or the sandbox - and I don't envy anybody from either theater!) Personally I think the emphasis on always/only doing tactical (retained) reloads was taken out of context by the "Walter Mittie" crowd and turned into an unreasoning cult gospel.

Now - Let's expand the discussion a bit! I haven't worn an assaulter's kit in years and the last time I did, drop bags (and most everything else too!) were improvised. Eagle was the only reputable manufacturer and the IMPAC C/C wasn't invented yet. I'll be working with a friend over the next few months to get my gear up to speed (and looking at some of your stuff Eggroll - it comes recommended by the right people). If we're retaining magazines - and a drop bag is the only smart way to do that - where is a "southpaw" that shoots his carbine right handed going to put a dump pouch without interfering with his (left) leg holster? Or should I get a chest rig for the pistol and mount it on the IBA? Given that mounted/urban ops have redefined the requirements what's an acceptable solution (read "direction to start experimenting"). IMWTK - Peregrino

[Gene Econ]

Originally Posted by Peregrino

I am a firm advocate of dropping expended mags - most of the time.....I was never where I couldn't go back to pick up discards or get a resupply....Personally I think the emphasis on always/only doing tactical (retained) reloads was taken out of context by the "Walter Mittie" crowd and turned into an unreasoning cult gospel....Given that mounted/urban ops have redefined the requirements what's an acceptable solution (read "direction to start experimenting"). IMWTK - Peregrino

Mr. 'P':

I cut and spliced your original message for brevity. I concurr totally with your views.

An acceptable solution is to drop the thing on the ground unless you have the opportunity to retain it. So far, we haven't been driven off a battlefield in Iraq or Afghanistan and if someone wants to look for a magazine, he can. If he loses it, he can get it replaced these days.

As for mounted operations, take my word for it as a former Mechanized guy -- you want as little to get caught on things in a vehicle as possible. Guys start out with a whole bunch of stuff on their body armor. Anything that does not give a edge in terms of speed / survival soon disappears from the gear.

I am not sure how guys approached drop pouches as few I know used them. I do know that the drop pouches work quite well. I also know they take up more room on ones body armor and they will get caught on things as any pouch will. I will ask some of the guys who thought they were a good idea prior to deployment as they are all back now.

Gene

[longrange1947]

OK, my two cents. We carried more ammo than mags. We retained mags so we could reload if we got in a bad situation. I am talking about CAR15/M4 mags here, not pistol mags.

We did carry a crap load of mags but we still carried more ammo than mags as the ammo took up less space than mags. Even with fire discilpline, ammo can go fast when the heart rate goes up and the bad guys are near. Sometimes exfil or resupply can be a problem.

I could careless what a mag costs, I just don't want a single shot CAR15. We seldom were able to go back and pick up mags after we got chased out of an area.

[Ranger7]

Having just returned from OEF, I can tell you that to get more magazines is a hassle. Not impossible, but not easy, and they certainly will not come with the next LOGPAC. It's much easier to retain the old ones, plus with the tape and 550 cord the work is already done. Not to mention the fire fights we got into there was only one time where we had to drop them and had no time to secure them. But they were still picked up afterwards by the soldiers themsselves, they just did it because they could and had the discipline to do so.

Will drop and leave if necessary, just hasn't been yet.

[oorah4jc]

Sorry for reviving the dead, but I have been thinking about this topic. Has anyone tried attaching the mags to your rig using some sort of lanyard (550 cord, etc.)?

[sf11b_p]

Yes, and they dangle, tangle and bang all over the place on the run but it works. Nothing I think anyone would do unless SOP'd.

[The Reaper]

Originally Posted by oorah4jc

Sorry for reviving the dead, but I have been thinking about this topic. Has anyone tried attaching the mags to your rig using some sort of lanyard (550 cord, etc.)?

You need to use the search button before posting here, especially when reviving old threads.

TR

[oorah4jc]

Roger that, Sir. My google-fu is evolving slowly.

And roger on the SOP. If my unit wants to constantly hand me new mags, then the floor is where they're headed. Just something I was thinking about.

[Delta Recon]

Guys:

Situation dictates tactics. My war (VN) with the Special Projects meant that we did not get resupply drops, stealth was our primary means of protection which included leaving a sterile area.

In the middle of a firefight, mags were dropped unless you could slip them into your blouse to be secured later. Idea was not to leave anything for the enemy and to leave as little trace of your passing or identity as possible. Things have changed, but those were the rules.

Currently, as a forensics guy, I just don't like to leave any more evidence than I have to. It is just habit.

As a recon operative, we carried 10 twenty round mags loaded with 18 rounds each in 2 M14 mag carriers; one twenty rounder in the weapon; one thirty rounder wrapped in our spare socks on our left leg cargo pocket, another couple of thirty rounders in our rucksack and a couple of twenty rounders in the outside pockets of our rucks so our teammates could get to them. We seldom fired on full auto except for suppressing fire in a break contact situation because no more ammo was going to be available. Different war, differeint types of operations, different tactics. I am sure Rick B will understand.

Of course, if we were going in on an assault with the Rangers or on a Bright Light, we loaded right up, usually with bandoliers.

[Desert Fox]

Just an idea for training: paint the upper part of the mag in bright orange/red. While in the pouches or loaded you dont see the painting, just when it is on the ground. Maybe it would work.