Reason for age minimum

[Snaquebite]

There has been a lot of money spent over a lot of years analyzing, charting, disecting, and so much more regarding the average SF "graduate". Tests are conducted, questionaires filled out, profiles made, etc etc.... EXPERTS assist in establishing requirements.

This is done on a continuing basis. For now...that's the age limit. Will it change? Probably. And IMHO the age requirement will be higher considering the activities and mentality of todays youth.

OTOH...why do you need to be 11 to be a Boy Scout? Why 15 (in most states) to get a learners license? etc etc

[LJ19]

Originally Posted by lksteve

Is your google-fu that weak? Look up the missions of SEALs, Rangers and Special Forces...look especially at the difference between direct action and unconventional warfare missions...work a little...

I know the difference between the two. I was just hoping you would tell a little bit more about why you wouldn't want to have been younger on your first ODA.

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by LJ19

I know the difference between the two. I was just hoping you would tell a little bit more about why you wouldn't want to have been younger on your first ODA.

That's how you should have phrased the question...the truth be told, at 23, having been a junior NCO in the 82nd, I had a grasp for a bit of responsibility...I was never a junior engineer sergeant on a detachment...I was always the senior engineer....I had 20 year old candy stripers as junior engineers and my experience in the 82nd helped me with the fundamentals of training and supervising subordinates...and while at 23, I was still the kid on the team (in terms of QPs), I would have been much more of a boy among men at 20...this was in the post Vietnam era and my team sergeant was a WWII vet...shortly after getting to the team, I was awarded Master Parachutist wings...all but one of the NCOs on the team were master blasters, the detachment commaner was a senior parachutist...average age of the QPs was probably 30-35...the candy stripers were essentially raised by wolves...I needed the experience to hold my own in that environment, to be able to function effectively...if I had gone to a team as a junior engineer, with a senior NCO in place, it might have been a little different...I could have been "Peter-sahn"...that wasn't the world I lived in, though...

[Snaquebite]

Originally Posted by LJ19

I know the difference between the two. I was just hoping you would tell a little bit more about why you wouldn't want to have been younger on your first ODA.

The first team I was on every single guy had a CIB, some had a Star. I was wishing I was older and been where they had been.

Go read and research more and report back what you discover.

Your assignment: "Why maturity is important as an SF soldier and how it relates to age in today's world"

[LJ19]

Thank you iksteve and Snaquebite for your responses.

Originally Posted by Snaquebite

Your assignment: "Why maturity is important as an SF soldier and how it relates to age in today's world"

How long should it be, and when is it due ?

[lksteve]

Originally Posted by LJ19

How long should it be, and when is it due ?

It needs to be as long as necessary to cover the subject...it's due when it's done, completely, succinctly, thoroughly...move out and draw fire...

[Snaquebite]

That's a good question. Let's suppose you're SF and your Team Sergeant gives you that assignment....Are you going to ask him that or just go home get it done and report back ASAP? I could say tomorrow. I could say 3 days. As far as length...nobody likes to read a long report... I just want documented facts.

[mark46th]

I was 21, going on 22 when I graduated from Phase III and assigned to group in 1971. I think one of the reasons they took younger guys at that time was due to attrition in Southeast Asia. But I think the main reason they took us so young was because we were young, eager and the vets enjoyed laughing at us....

[The Reaper]

LJ19, statistics from SOPC, SFAS, and the SFQC reflected an unusually high failure rate for younger students, so the minimum age was raised.

You don't see too many high schoolers going directly to the NFL, NBA, or MLB either. Given that they are money sports, there is probably a reason for that.

After being in SF for a few decades, you get a feeling about things like maturity. Reading posts here on PS.com, I can usually tell without checking when a poster is 20 years old or less.

You can enlist in the Army at age 17. Riddle me this. If you think you really have what it takes, why not cowboy up and enlist as an infantryman, either Airborne or Ranger, and prove that you have what it takes by soldiering for a couple of years before applying to try out for SF?

The end result is the same, isn't it?

TR

[ZonieDiver]

Originally Posted by mark46th

I was 21, going on 22 when I graduated from Phase III and assigned to group in 1971. I think one of the reasons they took younger guys at that time was due to attrition in Southeast Asia. But I think the main reason they took us so young was because we were young, eager and the vets enjoyed laughing at us....

Ditto for me, Mark. I hit 22 a couple months after I got to 8th Group.

It was "attrition" from SE Asia that was a contributing factor, and there were not a great many NCO's from active duty units coming into SF, at least in my classes. In my Weapons class, we had three - all VN vets.

[head]

To answer the other questions, when Couch was writing his book, there was no age limit. I signed up at 19 in 04, when I was 21 was on my first deployment, SF or not. I wasn't the youngest, but I don't remember anyone being under 20 by graduation.

Some might think I would be offended by everyone saying they wouldn't want someone that young on their team (Hell, I'm still too young at 24 by some of their standards), but I agree with them. You are at a Big disadvantage and must work hard to compensate for your lack of experience. However, this also applies to all 18X'rs, but the younger they are the less life experience, maturity, and learned skills they bring to the table. I had already lived abroad on my own and went to college by the time I enlisted, but some guys went straight out of highschool. I still look back sometimes and wonder what if I had started in an infantry unit, and I still seek to learn from the experiences that others had.

As far as having a "Oh shit what do I do?" reaction in combat, a lot of background comes into play - not just age. The type and quality of training would be a bigger influence IMO. Naturally an infantryman and other combat MOSs would have an edge, but not everyone in SF has that background - Xray or not.

Young or old, experienced or not, I believe a good SF soldier should always be trying to learn from everyone else - from the cherry FNG to the grizzled old team daddy.

[ZonieDiver]

Young or old, experienced or not, I believe a good SF soldier should always be trying to learn from everyone else - from the cherry FNG to the grizzled old team daddy.

Well said, Head! (Hey, that rhymes!) One of the proudest moments of my young SF life was when a "grizzled old team" member said, "Hey, I never thought of that" to a suggestion of mine.

If you ain't learning and growing, you are dying!

[LJ19]

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[cback0220]

I am not an old guy yet or even a guy with alot of experience, but I graduated last year at 21. I got Selected way back when I was 18. If I were you I would go be an infantryman in Ranger Battallion and would come to SF when you are an E-5. If you were to do that you would learn a hell of a lot, and be on a better footing and be more of an asset to your team initially.

[Utah Bob]

Originally Posted by cback0220

I am not an old guy yet or even a guy with alot of experience, but I graduated last year at 21. I got Selected way back when I was 18. If I were you I would go be an infantryman in Ranger Battallion and would come to SF when you are an E-5. If you were to do that you would learn a hell of a lot, and be on a better footing and be more of an asset to your team initially.

Pretty darn good advice.