Ideas for Fixed Blade

[ZonieDiver]

Personally I have never advocated the use of a knife for general use self defense because without extensive training the tool could easily be turned against the person trying to protect their own life.

I didn't learn much from my step-father, and got away from home as soon as I could. He did, however, teach me to play pool and that you 'drive for show and putt for dough' in golf. He also once imparted these words of wisdom - elegantly paraphrased by Mr. Harsey above - that "a knife is just something someone is going to take away from you and hurt you with."

[Razor]

Let me start off by saying I have no special insight into what makes a good daily carry/self-defense knife outside of carrying a knife of some type since I was quite young (back in the days a boy without a pocketknife, even at school, was the odd one out), common sense and some recent experience at an eye-opening course conducted by SouthNarc from Shivworks. That said, I've heard the arguments over long blade vs short blade, folder vs. fixed, sheath vs. pocket vs. IWB, tip up vs. tip down, forward grip vs. reverse grip, edge in vs. edge out, etc. ad nauseum.

With all that said, the above mentioned SouthNarc In Extremis Knife class I attended this fall (and which I HIGHLY recommend to anyone able to attend) helped me make some decisions in what and how I now carry a knife every day for utility and self-defense. Unlike a LE or military scenario where one may be likely to approach a situation with an offensive mindset and prepared for action, the worst case criminal context of a self-defense event has the target (you) surprised and immediately defending against blows to vital areas (head, neck) meant to quickly incapacitate, or against a clinch and effort to bring you to the ground. This means the target has to not only fend off these attacks, but simultaneously try to gain control, and immediately thereafter access, draw and employ his weapon--in this case, a knife. In case its not obvious, its much harder to pull a folder from one's pocket and open the blade when you're being pummeled, your arms are pinned to your sides or you're bent over at the waist fighting a takedown.

With all that in mind, my personal choice for a daily carry knife that can be used in both utility and SD roles is a fixed blade with an overall length of 7" or less and blade length of right around 3", a compromise between concealability, grip size (I have good sized hands) and maneuverability in the confines of a clinch. I carry it IWB just over my strongside hip for good concealability and ease of access when upright or bent over wrestling for arm control. It rides at an extreme angle (slightly under horizontal) to facilitate a locked wrist grip (for strength) right from the draw. The knife is thin (3/16") with a cord-wrapped grip to minimize thickness (again, concealability and carry comfort).

I've found I can carry the blade just about anywhere without being noticed, so long as I don't have to to pass through a metal detector or get a pat down search. This is the very reason that I EDC a knife; carrying a pistol in some of these areas would have severe, federally punishable consequences that make the penalty of being caught too harsh to risk. The knife gives me far less SD options than a firearm, but more than a small impact weapon or empty handed defense.

I'm still working on a preferred sheath and attachment system for more secure IWB carry without a belt, but in the meantime I've done some redneck modifications, cutting down the sheath and using a simple metal belt clip attached with a Chicago Screw to an eyelet on the sheath. Should the sheath come out during a draw still attached to the knife, a quick flick of my thumb snaps the sheath off the knife without losing my grip.

A push dagger would probably make a much better dedicated SD knife, IMO, but you lose much of the utility function, many localities outlaw daggers or double-edged knives, and many push daggers tend to be harder to conceal with a tucked in shirt.

My EDC knife:

[DanUCSB]

For clarification, the purpose of my post was not so much to dissuade you of the use of a fixed blade, but rather to make the point that all self-defense equipment decisions should be made with all points of view considered, including those that we find distasteful (such as those of the weapon-banning elite of this country). People who carry often spend tremendous amounts of time thinking about the tactical uses of the equipment, and not so much about the long-range ramifications of lethal use.

While it's less of a concern in certain areas of the country, I can tell you for certain I would never wish to face a jury of the couch-bound bon-bon eaters and earnest young Womens' Studies majors that inhabit the coasts of this country, even with the law solidly on my side.

Just food for thought.

[ccrn]

Razor
I see you have the PS.com knive. Very interesting comments and selection.

As far as knife retention yes it is very much a concern (or should be) for anyone carrying a weapon.

For that matter anyone carrying a handgun should be concerned about that too (I dont think enough are).

Thanks everyone for your comments I do appreciate it-

[Razor]

Originally Posted by DanUCSB

While it's less of a concern in certain areas of the country, I can tell you for certain I would never wish to face a jury of the couch-bound bon-bon eaters and earnest young Womens' Studies majors that inhabit the coasts of this country, even with the law solidly on my side.

That would be a rough jury to face, but I'd much rather face them and take my chances than already be dead or seriously injured.

[cold1]

Along time ago, mid 80s, I read an article by Masad Ayoob(SP?) regarding how the Prosecution portrays the defendant by which type of firearm was used in self defence. Hi cap mags, Hollow point ammo, etc equals a bad person who was out looking for a fight. No "normal" person would carry para military hardware like that. This portrayal of the defendant usually worked on most juries and ended in a conviction of some sort.

Could this tactic be used today for edged weapons? Should that play a role in the decision making process for which type of knife to carry? I am asking because I do not know.

Personally when I feel the need to carry one for self defense I go for broke, a 7 inch neck knife, and a 10 inch boot knife IWB, and one or two easy open lock blades in various pockets. Keep in mind I only do this when a great need arises. Usually I just have a 2 blade pocket knife or a single lock blade on me for daily use.

I would also like to mention that when discussing this with a few LEO friends of mine they have stated that they would much rather find someone armed with a couple of regular knives on them than someone with a single auto opener.

[Bill Harsey]

cold1,
The anti knife laws are proposed at about the same rate as the anti-firearm laws but do not get the same media coverage or attention.

Blade Magazine has a running column on knives and the law written by a judge.

http://www.akti.org/ was formed by the leaders of the knife and tool industry to provide some common sense and push back to the anti knife laws.

[Bill Harsey]

Razor,
Thank you very much for your posts here.

All,
here is a story about law enforcement and knives that will warm your hearts:
http://www.akti.org/news-updates/NYBust.html

This is an example of how the law gets bent and warped to fit a purpose and this is not a rare event.

[mcarey]

Originally Posted by cold1

I would also like to mention that when discussing this with a few LEO friends of mine they have stated that they would much rather find someone armed with a couple of regular knives on them than someone with a single auto opener.

This comment by your LEO friends is tyical of an woefully under-trained and funded domestic law enforcement. What is the difference?! Either the person carrying has the skill to use the tool (knife or gun)+ the intent to break the law; OR NOT! The threat is no more or less greater with an unknown opponent with a different type of weapon.

A knife (and a gun), no matter its type, is as dangerous as the intent and skill of the user. Recognizing intent, mentation of opponent and situational awareness, along with proper training, tactics and procedures should put any LEO in the best position to protect self and public. It also puts the law abiding armed citizen in the best position to protect self, family and property.

Any good defense lawyer should be able to defend lawful actions if the bearer of arms has followed the law and used sound judgement in dealing with a threat (wounding or killing in self-defense). (IE. If your state does not allow auto-openers, then don't carry one, become skilled with another form of blade and work to change the law if so inclined!)

Just my thoughts

[cold1]

Originally Posted by mcarey

This comment by your LEO friends is tyical of an woefully under-trained and funded domestic law enforcement. What is the difference?! Either the person carrying has the skill to use the tool (knife or gun)+ the intent to break the law; OR NOT! The threat is no more or less greater with an unknown opponent with a different type of weapon.

I agree. from what I can understand most of the bias regarding auto openers is left over from the time when they were the prefered weapons of gangs. The knives now have a stigma to them, kinda like tattoos. If you have one then you are predesposed to being a criminal.

A knife (and a gun), no matter its type, is as dangerous as the intent and skill of the user. Recognizing intent, mentation of opponent and situational awareness, along with proper training, tactics and procedures should put any LEO in the best position to protect self and public. It also puts the law abiding armed citizen in the best position to protect self, family and property.

I agree but does the jury see it that way. Most people today were raised in an era where the only time they used a knife was to open those damned plastic packages that their new toys came in. They do not use them daily or see a need for them. The only frame of reference they have for the use of knives, outside of that scope, was what they saw in slasher movies. Therefore knives are bad. The same goes for firearms.

What is going to happen when the newest zero tolerance generation become old enough to be jury members? Even in the "country" schools here, common sense is disappearing when it comes to zero tolerance. It has even worked its way down to some day cares and preschools.

Any good defense lawyer should be able to defend lawful actions if the bearer of arms has followed the law and used sound judgement in dealing with a threat (wounding or killing in self-defense). (IE. If your state does not allow auto-openers, then don't carry one, become skilled with another form of blade and work to change the law if so inclined!)

Just my thoughts

Here is the key word, "good". Not everybody is OJ and not everybody has his money.

[Razor]

I guess the bottom line is that you have to conduct your own evaluation of the risks and benefits derived from arming yourself, and then follow through with what you feel provides you and your family and friends with the best balance of security and risk.

[Bill Harsey]

Originally Posted by Razor

I guess the bottom line is that you have to conduct your own evaluation of the risks and benefits derived from arming yourself, and then follow through with what you feel provides you and your family and friends with the best balance of security and risk.

...and then pick the knife you want.

Well said Razor.

[ccrn]

Greetings all,
Sorry not to participate. Currently at a school for the next ten days. Thanks again for all the thoughts-

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

I've got a really good inexpensive Western with about 3.5 in blade that carries well mid back on the belt. I have instead gone to carrying a CRKT M-16 I have 2 of them because the little screws they use to hold it together kept falling out . I baught the second one and used "tite lock" on all the screws with no problems. The big reason for the M-16 is that the folding blade can be locked into a "fix" Blade witht a push of the thumb. The blade is of a good design and of enough to get the job done. Blitz

[JGarcia]

Blitzz,

I have two of them as well. Screws fell out of one and the tip of the blade broke off, so now I keep it in the junk drawer, and I am real careful with the one I still have in working condition.

Mr. Harsey,

I really like your interpretation of the Applegate Fairbane by Bokker. I have not bought a fixed blade since my M3 trench knife broke at the hilt in 2003.

I would like to buy one, but all of the new fixed blades I see are more of the "utility" or "Gucci" family as far as I am concerned; they are good knives for performing back country chores, or so radically styled that they look ridiculous, no serious man would wear one of those "Gucci" knives, IMO. But to each his own...

I'd like to see a modern interpretation of the M3 Trench Knife with a good solid piece of steel (six or seven inch dagger blade) that is the same thickness throughout the knife, a good ball shaped pommel (as in "ball peen hammer"), micarta handle, perhaps a serrated "Bone Saw" running down from the hilt to about half way down the blade; similar to the one on the USAF plain jane survival knife, flute the blade like the K Bar. It should look like the M3 trench knife and have a nice big friggen "USA" on it.

A fighting knife, that you might use to saw through a bone or piece of wood in a jam, but whose primary purpose is quickly and deeply penetrating a human body, or hammering a hand or a face with a back hand move. It ought to hold a mighty sharp edge to slash quick and clean.

If a Soldier has to fight with a knife, the knife ought to be free of frills and able to do one thing well: Kill.

The Army Fighting Knife, Made in USA.

Heck, I'd buy two.