Primary Weapon System Piston Retrofit Kit

[jatx]

Originally Posted by Archangel

WHAT?!!! You're finally coming over to the lowly Aimpoint camp? This I've got to see. Whatever happend to the wrong-eye dominant thing? Personally, I like to leave my Aimpoint ON between deployments. I like to see you try that between drills with your 553.

I have a theory that, if I run it pretty far out, I won't have an issue. I'm willing to try it with a T-1 due to the weight and the fact that it is less like looking through a tube. We'll see how it works, but I'm not selling my Eotech yet!

Originally Posted by Archangel

Wish I could make it to the Paul Howe instructor course with you, but I'm trying to work a deal to fly Paul down to train our boys at our facility (when it gets completed). Hell, if it works out the way I expect it to, I'd like to invite a few PS members down.

I'm going in October instead of May due to a client conflict, so perhaps you can make it. I'm also going to Jeff Gonzales' Carbine Operator Course at Quantico in October, which should be great training, too. Lemme know if you're interested and I'll send you the details.

Don't tell the Mrs. that you're with me, though, or she'll be calling to check on you the whole time!

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by jatx

I have a theory that, if I run it pretty far out, I won't have an issue. I'm willing to try it with a T-1 due to the weight and the fact that it is less like looking through a tube. We'll see how it works, but I'm not selling my Eotech yet!



I'm going in October instead of May due to a client conflict, so perhaps you can make it. I'm also going to Jeff Gonzales' Carbine Operator Course at Quantico in October, which should be great training, too. Lemme know if you're interested and I'll send you the details.

Don't tell the Mrs. that you're with me, though, or she'll be calling to check on you the whole time!

We'll have to see. Hopelly like I said, we're trying to get Paul to come down and train us at our facility. At least that will save me the grief of being on the phone every night trying to convince Mrs. Archangel that I've done no wrong while at the same time the Party Dots in the vehicle back to base were hooping & hollaring at every chick walking down the street.

[jbour13]

Originally Posted by Archangel

Not all of us are young single bucking studs like you anymore. Some of us have crumbsnatchers to feed.

Last I checked, LWRC's price for a conversion was still over $1,000 with my MIL discount and (unless I am misinformed) the LWRC system did not give me an option for gas adjustment when using a suppressor.

Archangel,

You are correct on the gas adjustment. Not to say that it's perfect, but the piston system is self regulating. When using a suppressor, the gas system on any gun, direct impengement (DI) or gas piston (GP), will overcharge gas into the operating parts. This increased blowback goes unregulated in a DI gun causing severe blowback into your operating parts (bolt, carrier, all the way out the ejection port and charging handle) and into your face. The beauty of the GP designs (LWRC, HK, POF and even PWS) is that they all vent at the piston.

The LWRC design is a self regulating/ self cleaning piston cup. This is from Darren at LWRC:

"Pressure builds over microseconds. The spring prevents the system from opening until just enough pressure is built to overcome the mass and all of the action springs. Once it pushes off, 6/10ths of an inch, it vents all excess in a staged vent and dump.

Cyclic rate depends on gas port dimension and the can (suppressor) volume."

Broken down Barney Style: You cannot overcharge the GP in a LWRC rifle......period, either suppressed or un-suppressed. A DI gun will spit carbon all over you and will increase your mean rounds to failure rate.

Adjustable gas systems are a necessity for DI guns to increase reliability and function of the massive differences in ammunition available for commercial shooters. Military uses ammunition that is fairly consistent burning for each application it is designed for. Anyone could tell you that de-linking ammo to use in a magazine or bolt fed platform will change the rates of fire, and accuracy. This gets worse as you step up calibers since the chambering of every weapons platform is different and the tolerances are spread over ammo, chamber and bore characteristics.

There are many on this board better qualified to cover this topic more accurately than I, so I digress. There is no need for an adjustable gas block on GP guns only DI.

Hope you are all still interested, we are still doing conversions, and we are still helping out. The company is setting up for SHOT, and preparing to move into a facility that will help them spit out more rifles per month than they can now. We've reached critical mass on orders vs. production. Demand is great for the system, unfortunately 4 guys on the production line are prematurely balding and getting ulcers trying to get these in the hands of the end users.

In the near future the company will only be providing direct to vendor (distributors, and select companies) sales and is slowly weening off individual sales. The staff that is in place isn't able to conduct follow-ups and answer questions of all of the individuals out there, so we are actually adding the middle men.

FWIW

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by jbour13

Hope you are all still interested, we are still doing conversions, and we are still helping out. The company is setting up for SHOT, and preparing to move into a facility that will help them spit out more rifles per month than they can now. We've reached critical mass on orders vs. production. Demand is great for the system, unfortunately 4 guys on the production line are prematurely balding and getting ulcers trying to get these in the hands of the end users.

In the near future the company will only be providing direct to vendor (distributors, and select companies) sales and is slowly weening off individual sales. The staff that is in place isn't able to conduct follow-ups and answer questions of all of the individuals out there, so we are actually adding the middle men.

I knew most of that, but you clarified a few things that I wasn't sure of. Thanks for the info.

Since I'm not here on a daily basis, I'm not familiar with everyone. Are you affiliated with LWRC since you mentioned that "we are still doing conversions, and we are still helping out. The company is setting up for SHOT..."

Don't get me wrong, I would love a LWRC upper, or conversion, but I was leaning towards the PWS because it was $400 for the conversion. Now of course that is not the ONLY reason why I would gravitate towards a certain product as I know that you USUALLY get what you pay for, but I also know that just because something costs a lot of money, doesn't make it a quality product. I have owned PWS products in the past and they seem to be a company that provides quality products. I have also spoken to Todd, the owner on several locations so I feel comfortable with PWS as a whole.

I'm waiting for jatx to get his LWRC in so I can fondle it before I make a commitment of my own on something that I don't NEED.

[jbour13]

Yes I'm affiliated, by genetics. I represent and speak on behalf of the company in a limited capacity. I cannot be paid since I'm active duty military and LWRC is a CAGE Vendor. My brother was the national sales manager and still works that side from time to time when Joe needs help. He's the Demo guy and production manager now. They will be up for SHOT, my brother included.

PWS makes good stuff, but you get what you pay for . LWRC is good, if not better than the HK system. It is cheaper by a longshot. They are making headway on quite a few products and I definately see them getting better when they move. I'm partial to it for obvious reasons. I have two systems, one in 5.56mm and the other in 6.8 SPC. I whole heartedly agree that Todd and his products are good.

Tell you what, I've got one as well and if you find yourself around the Fayettenam area and have time, hit me up and I'll be happy to let you punish my gun. You cannot do anything to it that I haven't already done, or have done to one of the demo guns.

We still owe a platform to longrange1947.......we are working on it.

Stop by the booth and say hi to all the LWRC crew if you are gonna be there. I cannot go since I have other issues to address.

I'll be sure to post an announcement as to when and where we'll be doing demo shoots. We are going to be doing another in the Fayetteville area again in the near future. There are a few more vendors in the area looking to be a stocking dealer of LWRC products.

I'll gather demo info and dealer information a few months after SHOT and will PM it to anyone that is interested when I get it.

[Archangel]

Originally Posted by jbour13

...

jbour13,

Thank you for your offer. Unfortunately, I will not be able to go to the SHOT show this year, but I will send some of my boys to the LWRC booth. As far as Fayettenam, I haven't been back there since I left in 92. I enjoyed my stay there, but can't say that I miss it much. NC is a beautiful state though.

As far as LWRC being better than HK, that's a pretty bold statement. Please enlighten me on why you feel this way. Not trying to stir anything up, I am genuinely curious.

One of our battalions have already gotten the 416 uppers and they only paid around $1200 for each, so costs is not that much of a factor (that is when HK releases the 416 uppers to the US civilian market).