Vertical Grips - Page 2

**Razor** · 07-10-2006, 10:20

While the forearm is supporting some of the weight of the weapon's barrel/foregrip/attachments, by pulling slightly rearward you're also using your lats and rear delts, which helps prevent fatigue.

**Team Sergeant** · 07-10-2006, 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max_Tab

Two groups of thought on that, I was tought, that you want the vertical foregrips as far back as possible, so you get a more supported platform to shoot from. But I have heard that some other units are teaching to have them all the way foreward, so you can acquire targets faster.

I don't have long hands, so keeping it close works for me. Now if I had a 10 inch barrel I might push it out a little.

I'd tend to agree with this train of thought.

I've found it difficult to "index" from tgt to tgt while using a V-grip. It's much smoother/faster when just the palm of the support hand is under the upper receiver.

TS

B 2/75 · 07-10-2006, 21:04

I'm no big-time door kicker, but I did give the fore grip a serious trial in OIF 1. Started out with a full size M4A1 with an ACOG and vgrip and in the end carried an 11" M4A1 with just a trijicon reflex on it. Nothing else. Perhaps I just couldn't get past the "strangeness" of the foregrip, despite having putzed for a few years with an M1A on an M14E2 stock having the foregrip. Having the clean forestock just makes for better hands-on control, it seems.

Smokin Joe · 07-11-2006, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

You can really crank that barrel around in a vicious arc with a VFG too - if the need should every arise to adjust the attitude of someone the ROE don't allow shooting.

This is the category I operate the most in. Very seldom can we shoot someone so for me the VFG turns the barrel into a hell of an impact weapon. I'm currently trying one out. I have not yet decided if I like it or not.

Gene Econ · 07-11-2006, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by B 2/75

I'm no big-time door kicker, but I did give the fore grip a serious trial in OIF 1. Started out with a full size M4A1 with an ACOG and vgrip and in the end carried an 11" M4A1 with just a trijicon reflex on it. Nothing else. Perhaps I just couldn't get past the "strangeness" of the foregrip, despite having putzed for a few years with an M1A on an M14E2 stock having the foregrip. Having the clean forestock just makes for better hands-on control, it seems.

B 2/75:

Joe tends to pull the barrel down when using a 'gangsta-grip'. Most of the guys we dealt with who started out any course with one soon took it off. Damn things would come loose and cause a bunch of problems getting hung up on gear and etc. Looks cool though.

Paid a visit to 2/75 last week to talk with the BC for a minute.

Gene

militarymoron · 07-11-2006, 21:00

disclaimer: civilian shooter here.

i've started to use a vertical grip with the hold shown below, instead of wrapping my whole hand around the grip like i did when i first started using it. the hand supports the forend but allows you to pull back on it at the same time. the thumb forward is just like the support hand thumb-forward when shooting a pistol - pointing at the target to help indexing.

CharlesArbuckle · 07-13-2006, 20:07

As a general thing I do not use one, the exception is where a light, peq2, etc. is taking all the space up. Weapon setup is an individual thing, with the mission driving the gear. Having said that, you will have more control, and therefore better able to "drive" the gun gripping as far forward as possible. Think of sweeping with a broom. You dont sweep with your hands close together, you get them all the way down on the handle. For pure shooting speed, you will shoot faster without one. If you must use one, put it as far out on the rail as possible, with your thumb on the weak side pointing forward and your hand pulling straight back. YMMV.

**Team Sergeant** · 07-14-2006, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesArbuckle

As a general thing I do not use one, the exception is where a light, peq2, etc. is taking all the space up. Weapon setup is an individual thing, with the mission driving the gear. Having said that, you will have more control, and therefore better able to "drive" the gun gripping as far forward as possible. Think of sweeping with a broom. You dont sweep with your hands close together, you get them all the way down on the handle. For pure shooting speed, you will shoot faster without one. If you must use one, put it as far out on the rail as possible, with your thumb on the weak side pointing forward and your hand pulling straight back. YMMV.

Charles,

You have been asked by more than one Special Forces soldier what you do in B-1/20. You have yet to answer.

We have cooks, clerks and mechanics etc. assigned to Special Forces. Before you post on this board again you will clarify your job title and qualifications.

If you are Special Forces qualified just say so. If you are mechanic, private, assigned to 20th SFG, again, let us know.

Don't post again until you inform one of the Special Forces administrators.

Team Sergeant

Basicload · 07-19-2006, 03:31

MM,

Although I am happy to see that you are using "thumbs forward" on your assault rifle, I am discouraged to see your light location to support that grip.

It is a common error for shooters that switch to thumbs forward to keep their light in the same place that it was when they used to "choke the chicken".

If you have to make major changes to your shooting position to use your gadgets then it jacks up your muscle memory.

I would recommend that a left handed shooter using a push button, locate their light in the 3, 4, or 5 oclock position.

Good to see you on here brother!

militarymoron · 07-19-2006, 08:12

basic,
thanks for the good advice, as always. that's an older pic - i switched the lights to the 3 o'clock position after adopting the thumb forward hold and discovering what you predicted: it wasn't a good idea to switch holds to activate the light.
also ditched all tape switches on the vertical and offset adapters.
thanks for taking the time to point it out - it's much appreciated.

**Team Sergeant** · 07-19-2006, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by militarymoron

also ditched all tape switches on the vertical and offset adapters.

Why?

The only reason IMO to have a vertical grip is it provides a good place for a tape switch.

TS

Basicload · 07-19-2006, 10:43

TS,

Many shooters are dumping tape switches on lights for push buttons, especially if the tape switch is the only way to turn the light on. Tape switches are not as reliable as buttons as a general rule. There is also the factor of white light AD's and the need to turn the light to constant on.

I use a surefire classic 6V tac light with a push button cap. If I get into a deliberate clearing phase I can go constant on which allows me to run the rifle with one hand while I open foot lockers, over turn furnature, or whatever.

I had to clear the back of a military truck (5-ton) once when I was still running a tape switch and when I grabbed the tail gate to steady myself while standing on my buddy's back I could not keep my light turned on.

I agree that VFG's are great for securing tape switches but I only run my laser switch on them now (and I carry an extra laser switch in my arm pocket).

The problem with button lights is that they are normally offset to the left or right of bore and I prefer to keep my "under gun light" under my gun. I have a front grip that actually houses my light and the button protrudes out of the back end of the grip. my light and grip do not fight for 6 Oclock rail space and my light stays under my rifle to minimize shadows thrown by my barrel/rail blocking my light.

Here is a pic of an old M-4A1 set up that I was running several years ago. I run the same grip on my assault rifle now.

militarymoron · 07-19-2006, 15:12

TS, basicload answered it better than i could. basically, i didn't find tape switch activation very positive when mounted on the vert grip - sometimes i'd activate it when i didn't want to, and sometimes it wouldn't come on exactly when i wanted it to. i found thumb activation with offset mount, or now at 3 o'clock with the thumb-forward (i'm a lefty) more positive as i was using only the thumb to control the switch on the light, instead of the whole hand. my grip pressure on the vertical remains more constant/consistent. also, with the momentary/click on tailcaps like the SF Scout, you can have constant on if needed, as basicload pointed out.

edited to add: just wanted to reiterate that i'm a civvie shooter for those who don't know me. what works best for me for shooting as a hobby/fun may have no merit in the military world, but just in the offchance it might, i share my limited experience here.

NousDefionsDoc · 07-19-2006, 15:43

Hayzus MM, stop apologizing!

Smokin Joe · 07-21-2006, 01:04

Now that you guys mention it I'm starting to realize the same issue with my tape switch, I just thought I was either man handling the VFG or being to much of a sissy with it.

Son-of-a-bitch, now I'm going to have to jack with my rifle somemore. Why is it that everytime I think I have a good configuration worked out you guys post some insight and I have to rework my for end to make it better Oh well beats reading my general orders of SOP's I guess I'll have to go fiddle with my rifle somemore.