12-25-2012, 11:39
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#181
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, SC
Posts: 4,204
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Quote:
The Second Amendment, as passed by the Congress, reads thusly:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
What this means to me is this:
The God-given right of the people to organize a militia in defense of a free state, and to own and carry weapons in defense of that free state, shall not be infringed.
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So... shouldn't those who possess, or want to possess, such weapons actually BE in the "well regulated" militia.
Just where is this militia, and where do they 'drill'?
How will this militia be called up when needed?
Who decides when and if it is to be called up?
Is a militia different from an armed mob?
Just asking...
Besides, I thought you used a sword! 
__________________
"I took a different route from most and came into Special Forces..." - Col. Nick Rowe
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ZonieDiver is offline
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12-25-2012, 11:55
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#182
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Ya know
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCH
Better than Nancy Lanza did!
Then why do so many people keep their valuables in safes, have home security systems, and home owners insurance riders to cover theft of valuables?
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Ya know, I've heard that Bull Shit remark a couple of times and asked Well, how did she secure them.
Nobody knows - but they're all experts on she didn't secure them well enough.
And I asked again - How well do they have to be secured to prevent a family member from getting them? A few more smart ass remarks.
You well secured folks had better be careful "well secured" might be defined by the government as inside a 6' x 6' x 6' block of cured cement.
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Pete is offline
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12-25-2012, 11:56
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#183
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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Unorganized
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonieDiver
So... shouldn't those who possess, or want to possess, such weapons actually BE in the "well regulated" militia.
Just where is this militia, and where do they 'drill'?
How will this militia be called up when needed?
Who decides when and if it is to be called up?
Is a militia different from an armed mob?
Just asking...
Besides, I thought you used a sword! |
Unorganized Militia.
Did you miss the other thread?
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Pete is offline
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12-25-2012, 12:00
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#184
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Occupied Pineland
Posts: 4,701
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Interesting Factoid: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...Secret-Service
Some animals are more equal than others.
__________________
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
~ Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)
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Peregrino is offline
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12-25-2012, 13:17
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#185
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Georgetown, SC
Posts: 4,204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Unorganized Militia.
Did you miss the other thread?
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Nope, I didn't miss it at all. In fact, I was a contributor to that thread and followed it closely.
I was referring to comment such as this one by our own learned magistrate (no Pink, seriously respectful use of "learned magistrate"):
Quote:
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Neither the Federalist Papers, nor Paine's "Common Sense", nor arguments on the floor during debates, were part of what was ratified. If some old document helps in understanding, fine. But, if those documents imply a holding other than the plain text of the Constitution, they are nothing more than ink stains on really old paper
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.
The actual words in the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment are "well regulated militia". The idea of "organized" vs "unorganized" as brought up in the other thread derives from a 1789 act of the North Carolina legislature (not the US Constitution) and the U.S. Code (which can be changed tomorrow), as well as" some old or obsolete definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary".
If we stick to ONLY the words in the Constitution, these other references become moot.
My point is, and has been, that 'we' need to get out ahead of those who wish to stress the first part of the 2nd Amendment, and gut the second part (about the people keeping and bearing arms), 'we' need to pre-empt any argument 'they' may come up with. Make our own, modern, definition of these words: militia, organized militia, and unorganized militia - on a state-by-state basis.
I personally don't give a shit what 'they' do in New York. Never been there. I'll never go there if I can avoid it. Arizona can set up whatever they choose, the militia may have whatever arms Arizona deems appropriate, and people can 'vote with their feet' as a frequent contributor here says.
__________________
"I took a different route from most and came into Special Forces..." - Col. Nick Rowe
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ZonieDiver is offline
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12-25-2012, 13:24
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#186
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Page/Lake Powell, Arizona
Posts: 3,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonieDiver
Nope, I didn't miss it at all. In fact, I was a contributor to that thread and followed it closely.
I was referring to comment such as this one by our own learned magistrate (no Pink, seriously respectful use of "learned magistrate"):
.
The actual words in the US Constitution's 2nd Amendment are "well regulated militia". The idea of "organized" vs "unorganized" as brought up in the other thread derives from a 1789 act of the North Carolina legislature (not the US Constitution) and the U.S. Code (which can be changed tomorrow), as well as" some old or obsolete definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary".
If we stick to ONLY the words in the Constitution, these other references become moot.
My point is, and has been, that 'we' need to get out ahead of those who wish to stress the first part of the 2nd Amendment, and gut the second part (about the people keeping and bearing arms), 'we' need to pre-empt any argument 'they' may come up with. Make our own, modern, definition of these words: militia, organized militia, and unorganized militia - on a state-by-state basis.
I personally don't give a shit what 'they' do in New York. Never been there. I'll never go there if I can avoid it. Arizona can set up whatever they choose, the militia may have whatever arms Arizona deems appropriate, and people can 'vote with their feet' as a frequent contributor here says.
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Arizona is on its way.
The unorganized militia is already empowered by Constitutional carry.
Just need a few more empowerments.
__________________
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Waiting for the perfect moment is a fruitless endeavor.
Make a decision, and then make it the right one through your actions.
"Whoever watches the wind will not plant; whoever looks at the clouds will not reap." -Ecclesiastes 11:4 (NIV)
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GratefulCitizen is offline
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12-25-2012, 14:57
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#187
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete
Ya know, I've heard that Bull Shit remark a couple of times and asked Well, how did she secure them.
Nobody knows - but they're all experts on she didn't secure them well enough.
And I asked again - How well do they have to be secured to prevent a family member from getting them? A few more smart ass remarks.
You well secured folks had better be careful "well secured" might be defined by the government as inside a 6' x 6' x 6' block of cured cement.
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It's not rocket science....if they were secured ...her mentally ill son wouldn't have been able to use them to commit the horrendous acts he carried out.
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12-25-2012, 15:02
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#188
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 13,080
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In other words
In other words - you don't know but like using the phrase.
He killed her.
How many home weapons storage plans take into account one of the family killing you?
I consider my weapons and ammo secure - but if one of my family killed me they would have access to the storage areas........
...........and I wouldn't be around to defend my plan.
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Pete is offline
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12-25-2012, 15:16
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#189
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland
Posts: 24,832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCH
It's not rocket science....if they were secured ...her mentally ill son wouldn't have been able to use them to commit the horrendous acts he carried out.
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Was your unit armory guaranteed secure?
Were the weapons you were issued 100% secure against misuse or loss at all times?
Nothing is certain but death and taxes.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
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The Reaper is offline
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12-25-2012, 15:16
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#190
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCH
It's not rocket science....if they were secured ...her mentally ill son wouldn't have been able to use them to commit the horrendous acts he carried out.
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What is "secured?" What level of security is acceptable?
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koz is offline
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12-25-2012, 16:30
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#191
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 167
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I remember as a child seeing my dad lock up his firearms. It was just something that was taught. I also remember him saying, " Always be carefull, this cabinet and locks will only keep honest people out." More true these days than back then. Lock em up tight. If some one wants them bad enough, there gone. I know the vaults are more secure these days. However the same applies. Put a lock on it and most criminals, especially the mentally ill will see it as more of a challenge with a bigger pay off.
Last edited by dollarbill; 12-25-2012 at 16:39.
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dollarbill is offline
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12-25-2012, 16:46
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#192
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Area Commander
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Page/Lake Powell, Arizona
Posts: 3,447
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How secure are your car keys, kitchen knives, and gas cans?
http://www.sfgate.com/news/world/art...13-4144574.php
Injured is injured, dead is dead.
Deny one tool and another will be used.
Firearms aren't necessary to harm the defenseless.
They are useful for protecting the defenseless.
__________________
__________________
Waiting for the perfect moment is a fruitless endeavor.
Make a decision, and then make it the right one through your actions.
"Whoever watches the wind will not plant; whoever looks at the clouds will not reap." -Ecclesiastes 11:4 (NIV)
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GratefulCitizen is offline
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12-25-2012, 17:30
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#193
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 20,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koz
What is "secured?" What level of security is acceptable?
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I agree. As I said before I would not purchase a 1000 lb gun safe if I only owned two pistols. And even if I did my "family" would most likely know the combo.
And besides that here in Arizona the ATF likes to give away AR-15's to illegals. Not hard to find a gun if you really wanted one.
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"The Spartans do not ask how many are the enemy, but where they are."
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Team Sergeant is offline
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12-25-2012, 20:16
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#194
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Western New York State
Posts: 318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonieDiver
So... shouldn't those who possess, or want to possess, such weapons actually BE in the "well regulated" militia.
Just where is this militia, and where do they 'drill'?
How will this militia be called up when needed?
Who decides when and if it is to be called up?
Is a militia different from an armed mob?
Just asking...
Besides, I thought you used a sword! |
A militia of freemen cannot be formed at all unless they are already armed, in order to be well regulated (trained).
My little village here readied themselves and marched West to fight in 1812 in under 12 hours, they became a militia, all already had arms. Would have been difficult to accomplish if they had not had arms already available.
The Militia is the People.
__________________
Enlightenment comes with age. In SF we cannot wait for aged enlightenment to be successful. We need to be successful now. This means hunt out education, seek advice from experts, become an expert, and never stop learning. Never let your ego keep you from asking questions! Pass on your knowledge! (Pistol Pete)
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Destrier is offline
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12-25-2012, 21:21
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#195
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destrier
A militia of freemen cannot be formed at all unless they are already armed, in order to be well regulated (trained).
The Militia is the People.
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Exactly.
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ddoering is offline
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