How do you do it?

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by kgoerz

Yes, slide locked to the rear. But the question was only for the 1911 where it is difficult to hit the slide release with the strong hand like on the M9 and Glock. I am going with reaching over the top (sling shot) since this is how I speed reload with most pistols when I have slide lock back because the Mag has run dry. Just the 1911 no other models. The question basically is it tactically ok to sling shot the slide on a 1911 by reaching over the top with your weak hand after inserting a fresh Mag.

On one hand I see that as wasted motion, but some don't have a large hand and must consider other means I guess. I never had a problem with the slide catch manipulation via strong hand. I don't see a problem with using it in a tactical situation. I can "see" how fast one could become using that method.

When I wore a M9 I carried loaded, safe off.

TS

[7624U]

Originally Posted by Surgicalcric

What if youre a lefty, or as in my case forced to shoot lefty?

Crip

trigger finger if you learn it that way

[SMGCat]

Over the top.

As previously stated, I think it "flows" better during IA drills, and feels natural, albeit, if you do anything enough, it will feel that way.

I think, based on the thread discussions here, that you can subdivide the topic into two categories. Releasing the slide, and using the slide release itself.

Both can be utilized in appropriate circumstances, which I think have to be defined. I tend to opt for the gross motor skill (bang and thump method) styles.

I tend to favor running the gun dry, rather than cycling mag changes as a rule. However, that doesn't preclude me from a reload if circumstances allow

[NotME]

Over the top, unless you have spent a ton of time learning and practicing something else. It uses more gross motor skills. If you're doing IA drills or anything where you're training and building muscle memory for combat skills, gross motor skills are always better because they're easier and you can still do them after you're hopped up so high on adrenaline that you couldn't take a whiz without getting your boots wet! When you get that chemical cocktail that your body dumps into your system, you lose your fine motor skills, and things like switches and levers can become major obstacles!

[Team Sergeant]

Originally Posted by NotME

Over the top, unless you have spent a ton of time learning and practicing something else. It uses more gross motor skills. If you're doing IA drills or anything where you're training and building muscle memory for combat skills, gross motor skills are always better because they're easier and you can still do them after you're hopped up so high on adrenaline that you couldn't take a whiz without getting your boots wet! When you get that chemical cocktail that your body dumps into your system, you lose your fine motor skills, and things like switches and levers can become major obstacles!

I don't agree.

Proper training refines these skills and mindset allows us to make those high value shots into the left eye of a bad guy while he's shooting at us.

I only agree with your statement as it concerns sheeple.

Originally Posted by NotME

When you get that chemical cocktail that your body dumps into your system, you lose your fine motor skills, and things like switches and levers can become major obstacles!!

If this is true one might be better served to find himself a job flipping burgers instead of going toe to toe with the bad men.

Team Sergeant

[NotME]

That's what I meant when I wrote, "unless you have spent a ton of time learning and practicing something else". I don't know if I would call everybody who doesn't have 24/7 access to a shoot house "sheeple". I just think of them as underpriveleged.

[CDRODA396]

I use the weak hand/support hand over the top for several reasons, most already stated here...
-works regardless of gun, hand size, right/left handed.
-can clear very difficult jams by pushing forward with the strong hand, opposite the rearward pull of the weak/support hand.
-gross motor skill, easy to do under stress.
-once your weak hand releases the slide, your strong hand is moving towards presentation if needed to continue engagement.
-when releasing from the slide release, you lose with some guns up to a quarter of an inch of rearward travel fo the slide, therefore you are not maximizing the spring weight that the gun was designed to reliably chamber rounds under.

Before I say this, yes, you can do this for years and not have a problem, but it doesnt change the fact that releasing the slide with the slide stop places huge shear forces on the slide stop which wears on it, and can break it...no, doesnt happen alot, but it does happen.

I started shooting USPSA (the IPSC sanctioned governing body in the US) about a year ago after I retired and Uncle Sam wasnt funding my shooting anymore. It does NOT replace tactical training/shooting, but it can be a useful tool. The stress comes from the clock and competition, but YOU DO NOT have to leave your tactics at the gate and play solely by their techniques. In fact out on Range 14, you will see many duty guns, thigh holsters and blackhawk nylon three mag, mag pouches, the very ones you'll see at Bagram or Bagdad.

IDPA was founded to eliminate some of the gamesmanship, and enforces the use of cover, save reloads, etc. Stages are by rulebook mandate designed to replicate "real life" scenarios as much as possible...no "Hoser Stages." It also rewards accuracy over speed, vice USPSA which is inverse. However, you still have to hit the "vital zone" of either target to get any points.

Both are still competitive shooting. And both can be used to augment your training. Both are not far from the Stress Test of the old SOT, and not having gone to SFARTEC, I dont know, but would bet that stress test is similar.

The one thing serious competitive shooters have over most SOF types that I knew on AD or now (I still work at Group as a Civilian), is they establish a practice ethic that I simply didnt see in anyone not shooting weekend matches. I dont know anyone that dry fires daily, does 250 draws a day, etc. Some Team Sergeants would draw pistols one a week, or as "hip pocket training, " but not on the scale the average competitive shooter does. My company had the M9 pellet pistols, and occassionally you would here the tink, tink of pellets hitting the bullet trap. Dave Savigny (or however you spell it...) the Glock Factory USPSA Shooter, does 1000 draws and dry fires a day before he ever fires a shot, and his ammo is free. You simply dont see (or I dont) that kind of dedication to the craft in the Team Rooms.

Finally, most serious USPSA shooters will disable their slide lock to prevent the slide from locking back on an empty magazine. If you are shooting a wide body 1911 (ie. SVI/STI), the mag well is of course monsterous and the magazine is not quite twice as wide as a single stack mag, but close...at the bottom. But at the mouth end, it is the same size as a single stack mag. If you jam a mag into a SVI/STI with the slide locked back during a speed reload, you can easily over-insert the mag, lodging it to far in to allow the slide to go forward and too far to easily remove the mag, and you can break or damage the extractor...and with a lttle practice, you can get very fast without thinking about it, at racking the slide with the weak hand (no, not as fast as with the slide release, but fast). This IS based strickly on gamesmanship, but addresses some comments earlier in the thread.

My nickle and a half, all blasters fire away!

[frostfire]

don't want to start new threads on these tutorial by the AMU, so here goes:

Originally Posted by bberkley

Did you get to see him shoot, Sir?

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Nope, 'fraid not, we were in the Headquarters.

Maybe next time.

I told him that we enjoyed the video and that he was pretty good.

TR

all copy and paste
CPL Travis Tomasie on speed reloads
youtube.com/watch?v=StXMHw32kjA

CPL Travis Tomasie on shot calling (good drill at the end)
youtube.com/watch?v=yqCqeyvRxXw

SSG Max Michael on shooting on the move
youtube.com/watch?v=DAHDgmWOkCE

SSG Johnson and PFC Horner on shotgun reloading
youtube.com/watch?v=wU5dsnBsxXs

Referring to the original thread, I guess I'm the only weird one here who uses weak hand thumb to engage the slide lock. The thumb is already heading that way to reestablish the 2-hand grip. Well, it works (fast) each and every time. This "each and every time" is not in a two-way range (yet), so we'll see

[FMF DOC]

I'm a natural lefty so I go over the top...

[wanabe1026]

Originally Posted by NotME

Over the top, unless you have spent a ton of time learning and practicing something else. It uses more gross motor skills. If you're doing IA drills or anything where you're training and building muscle memory for combat skills, gross motor skills are always better because they're easier and you can still do them after you're hopped up so high on adrenaline that you couldn't take a whiz without getting your boots wet! When you get that chemical cocktail that your body dumps into your system, you lose your fine motor skills, and things like switches and levers can become major obstacles!

I recently had an instructor comment on the loss of fine motor skills under stress. His attitude was that proper trigger manipulation is a fine motor skill. With proper training people still have good trigger manipulation under stress. If you train yourself to use the slide release then its not a big deal. He used the slide release when shooting in competitions because it was faster for him. When training for combat he used the weak hand over the top. The problem I can see with that is if you stress out and your body takes a second to choose which one to use.

I personally use the weak hand over the top simply because its only one skill my body needs to remember. Anytime I need to manipulate the slide its done the same way. Thats the way my Dad trained me and later how the pistol classes I've taken trained me. I just took a carbine class and found myself instinctively running the charging handle on speed loads when it ran dry instead of using the bold release. The class taught to hit the bolt release and if that didn't work go to the charging handle. The instructor saw me not use it a few times and asked me if I even realized it. I didn't. It was just so ingrained in my head to get the magazine seated and then rack it. So I guess in theory when I'm under stress thats what I'll do without thinking about it and it will work.

I guess to sum it all up: I use over the top with weak hand.

[grog18b]

Originally Posted by NousDefionsDoc

Well, I think the slide release is faster.

x2 plus it's the way I was taught.

[triQshot]

I use B as well.

Gross motor skills are better when it hits the fan. Fine motor skills go out the window when your heart rate jumps up.

(What our instructors at the PA taught us)

Pull back on the slide with your weak hand, and push foward with your strong hand.

[Blitzzz (RIP)]

I like what Guy said. room clearing tactical is over the top with weak hand securing the weapon mid-chest and pushing the lower forward. pinch with weak hand and rotate pistol upside down for malfunctions. and combat pinch with weak hand slide pull because one may be behind cover on the ground. Blitzzz

[82ndtrooper]

I was instructed by Larry Vickers on the both the over hand method and slide lock method during reloading drills.

Larry's thumgs are long enough to reach the slide lock release, but others like Todd Jarret use their weak hand thumb to depress the slide lock once the mag is seated properly in the weapon.

Both methods work, but I have trouble with an USP slide lock with the weak hand thumb. It's just kinda sticky and much harder than 1911's to accomplish this type of mag reload with the slide is locked back.

I've opted to just using the over hand method (sling shot) for all reloads when the mag has been completley spent.

Just my little .02

Heres Todd Jarret usng four different methods of reloading. Notice his slide lock method of reloading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNjcubxfQA

[Onuma]

Sorry if I'm "Lazarus'ing" this thread.

I prefer to use the slingshot method, as it's been called here, when loading up a magazine fresh or reloading. When I'm locking back to the rear, usually for clearing purposes or to place a cold weapon on the shooting range bench, etc., I will use the weak hand over top method.

The reasoning behind this is that most auto pistols are universally racked this way. I can pick up a S&W, 1911, H&K, Sig, or Beretta (or any other modern auto for that matter) and rack it just the same. After all, I don't train to play gun games -- as fun as they can be -- I train for life or death.

The slide release will not be in the same place on 100% of pistols, but the slide will be