07-27-2006, 20:20
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#16
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,841
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What are the 8 fundamentals of marksmanship?
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:24
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#17
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DFW Texas Area
Posts: 4,741
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
What are the 8 fundamentals of marksmanship?
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Ruh-Ro!!! 
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:24
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#18
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 342
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Other purposes = to simulate malfunctions and train in malf clearance and to trigger a transition to another weapon.
Two drills I like.
The "Busy Hands Drill" where you start with a cup in your hand, or a shopping bag, or a satchel over your shoulder, and then drop the cup/ bag/ satchel, draw and fire.
"BG and Buddies Drill" set up two or three targets at different distances. One can be almost contact distance. Draw and fire at closest target and then more distant targets. Move to line up BGs, so they'd have to shoot through the other to get you.
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Cincinnatus is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:27
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#19
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 342
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I gotta learn to type faster. There were five replies while I was typing my last. 
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Cincinnatus is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:28
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#20
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ambush Master
Ruh-Ro!!! |
If you google "fundamentals of marksmanship," you get lots of different lists with different numbers of fundamentals. Sorry if I am being ignorant (I am), but I would like to know what is on NDD's list. Just trying to learn! 
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:33
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#21
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Quiet Professional
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Location: DFW Texas Area
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ambush Master
Who's heard of this?!?!
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OK!!
It is when you are in a Target Rich Environment, with Multiple Targets Presented. Everyone gets served once, before anyone gets seconds!!
With full auto weapons, it is much easier to get multiples on each threat, but with a pistol, you're needing to get as many guns "Out of the fight" as fast as possible.
Later
Martin
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Martin sends.
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Ambush Master is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:33
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#22
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 342
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If you've got a training buddy, you can have a lot of fun with variations on the "BG and Buddies Drill", we used to make hoods from grocery bags (the brown paper ones), cutting half circles on the sides and duct taping the edges so that they's stay put on one's shoulders. You put on the hood, your buddy arranges targets, taping "knives" and "guns" to some. He then comes back, turns you around a few times and lifts off the hood.
You now have to orient yourself to the targets, shoot them in order of threat, and not shoot any that aren't "armed". Fun for the whole family.
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Cincinnatus is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:44
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#23
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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1. Stance
2. Grip
3. Sight Alignment
4. Sight Picture
5. Trigger control
6. Breathing
7. Recovery
8. Follow-through
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:47
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#24
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,841
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Thanks, doc.
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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07-27-2006, 20:55
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#25
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Guerrilla
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vermont
Posts: 342
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Another really useful, and kinda fun thing to do, though not really a drill, I guess, is knock down targets.
Take a 4"x4" and cut it an inch shorter than the height of an IPSC or IDPA cardboard target. Wrap the 4"x4" in duct tape. Staple the cardboard target to the 4"x4" such that it runs down the middle of the target ending an inch from the bottom. Staple a second target to the back of the 4"x4". If you've done this right, it will now stand upright with the bottome edges of the targets serving as sort of runners and the 4"x4" roughly simulating the vitals.
Make a waist high pedestal using another length of 4"x4" and a couple of pieces of plywood. The pedestal should stand on it's own and be fairly stable.
Set the top of the torso, the targets stapled to the 4"x4", on top of the pedestal.
Hits to the "vitals" will topple the torso. Poor hits will pass right on through. This is a great way to condition "shooting to stop." If the target hasn't gone down it's still a threat.
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Cincinnatus is offline
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07-27-2006, 21:18
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#26
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lacey Washington
Posts: 737
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
What are the 8 fundamentals of marksmanship?
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RL:
Not being a wise guy here so please -- no law suits.
The eight fundamentals went out of use about twenty years ago. Thank God. SFAUC still uses them and the results are evident. No one knows which one of the eight he needs to work on to be better, and no one can do eight things perfectly at once.
Today there are only four fundamentals by Army doctrine -- about two or three too many IMHO.
I use two or maybe one for some folks. Fire the shot when the barrel is pointed into the middle of the target. It works pretty well in fact and there is little confusion about cause if shots go astray. Either the pointing or the pulling of the trigger is the culprit.
Pointing can be a vision issue or a zero issue. Trigger pull is a human issue.
I have tried to write a three hundred page manual on shooting but can't seem to get past one sentence. 'Train the eyes to see and the finger to move. '
Gene
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Gene Econ is offline
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07-27-2006, 21:23
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#27
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gene Econ
'Train the eyes to see and the finger to move.'
Gene
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You are a Zen Master, Yoda Gene.
That is the most succinct summation of marksmanship that I have ever read.
TR
__________________
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - President Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
De Oppresso Liber 01/20/2025
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The Reaper is offline
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07-27-2006, 21:36
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#28
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Consigliere
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Free Pineland (at last)
Posts: 8,841
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Gene, what drills do you recommend for novice shooters?
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Roguish Lawyer is offline
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07-27-2006, 21:40
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#29
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gene Econ
RL:
Not being a wise guy here so please -- no law suits.
The eight fundamentals went out of use about twenty years ago. Thank God. SFAUC still uses them and the results are evident. No one knows which one of the eight he needs to work on to be better, and no one can do eight things perfectly at once.
Today there are only four fundamentals by Army doctrine -- about two or three too many IMHO.
I use two or maybe one for some folks. Fire the shot when the barrel is pointed into the middle of the target. It works pretty well in fact and there is little confusion about cause if shots go astray. Either the pointing or the pulling of the trigger is the culprit.
Pointing can be a vision issue or a zero issue. Trigger pull is a human issue.
I have tried to write a three hundred page manual on shooting but can't seem to get past one sentence. 'Train the eyes to see and the finger to move. '
Gene
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Are you saying SFAUC guys can't shoot or I am mis-reading? I only know one, and he shoots very well.
We still use the 8 - to verying degrees depending on what we are doing. For example, I don't worry about breathing when I'm hammering.
I disagree about not being able to do 8 things at once - not at first of course, but eventually you don't have to think about them anymore. They have to become ingrained, but they are still there.
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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07-27-2006, 21:41
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#30
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Quiet Professional
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 1,653
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roguish Lawyer
Gene, what drills do you recommend for novice shooters?
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Instructor Slut!
__________________
Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with minimal food or water, in austere conditions, training day and night. The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear. He doesn't worry about what workout to do - his ruck weighs what it weighs, his runs end when the enemy stops chasing him. This True Believer is not concerned about 'how hard it is;' he knows either he wins or dies. He doesn't go home at 17:00, he is home.
He knows only The Cause.
Still want to quit?
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NousDefionsDoc is offline
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