Ammo Temps / Handloading

[Gene Econ]

Guys:

Rick has confirmed my 'feeling' about the Chey Tac or what ever it is called. Same with Mr. Reaper. Roger that -- understand the situation completely and enough said.

Rick went over the requirement that motivated the SOTI courses to instruct handloading and one fellow commented on changes in zero due to temperatures of the ammo.

Ammo temp does have an effect but how much? Here is a little test I did with some 3/2 snipers while running some training at Yakima two or three years ago. I did this because the guys were asking.

I bought a little Radio Shack electronic thermometer with a probe and got the temp of some M-118 SB in an ammo can. It was late November at Yakima and the ammo in the ammo can was about 50 degrees F. I took ten rounds of 118 and cooked them with an MRE heater for about ten minutes. They got to about 120 degrees F. Temp difference being about 70 degrees F.

Then I had a guy fire ten shots of each over a chronograph. I figure the MRE heated 118 was hot as he had to very quickly chuck them into the chamber due to how hot they were -- he, he, he. Very little difference in velocities -- 40 - 50 fps. A minute at best. Zero changes? Sure, given a High Master competitive shooter firing a top notch match rifle on a good KD range. Given an average trained sniper firing field fire in a desert in the bright sun and wind -- impossible to determine if there was any change in probability of hit.

I will say that standard deviation was greater with the heated ammo than the cooler ammo.

I believe that the Army uses the ball powder it uses for consistency over a wide temperature range. I have never found a 'practical' difference in terms of zero unless the ammo is real, real cold or real, real hot. Cold or hot enough to require the shooter to handle the ammo with gloves of some sort. However, this was at practical ranges to about 500 and not at 1000 where no doubt it would make a practical difference. I personally think the ball powder doesn't give as much consistency in velocities but I do think it is more consistent over a wide range of temperatures than extruded powders. No, I don't shoot ball powder in competition.

The handloading issue has IMHO never been of any tactical value in a sniper course, even during the Cold War. Rick can tell you that Army Material Command gave the SOTIC permission to hand load but otherwise will not grant this permission to any tactical unit I know of. I liked the handloading POI because it got guys interested in their profession and to me this was a huge benefit of having it as part of any sniper course. Getting guys interested in pursuing their skill is a very good thing indeed and the handloading training got more interested rather than less.

Yes, I have used Soviet bullets and powder pulled from Soviet 7.62 X 54 R to handload NATO 7.62. Both the 150 grain and 180 grain 7.62 X 54 ammo. It is a very tricky situation and I would not advise it unless one understands Soviet production thought and is extremely anal about measuring things, and thinking before he acts. M-118 outshot these 'recovered' handloads.

Gene