1911 and Ammo

Scotty · 08-09-2005, 10:55

Hey guys, long time no see.

I recently bought a new toy and am having the same issues as I've had with my Kimbers, Colts, and Thompson 1911s.

After about 200 rds or so, the weapon starts gumming up and jamming. I've been shooting the Winchester battle packs. I might bump up to to a 240 grain round, I think Winchester's best in the the battle packs are 230.

What do you guys shoot for target/what do you do to the weapon to keep it from gumming badly?

BTW, here's my new toy. Custom built Strayer-Voigt frame, Caspian slide. Completely built from the ground up by master gunsmith Tommy Abernathy.

Scotty

**Dan** · 08-09-2005, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty

...am having the same issues as I've had with my Kimbers, Colts, and Thompson 1911s.

...After about 200 rds or so, the weapon starts gumming up and jamming.

Based on these two comments I'd recommend telling folks here what your using as lubricant/other products used to care for the weapons.

**The Reaper** · 08-09-2005, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty

Hey guys, long time no see.

I recently bought a new toy and am having the same issues as I've had with my Kimbers, Colts, and Thompson 1911s.

After about 200 rds or so, the weapon starts gumming up and jamming. I've been shooting the Winchester battle packs. I might bump up to to a 240 grain round, I think Winchester's best in the the battle packs are 230.

What do you guys shoot for target/what do you do to the weapon to keep it from gumming badly?

BTW, here's my new toy. Custom built Strayer-Voigt frame, Caspian slide. Completely built from the ground up by master gunsmith Tommy Abernathy.

Scotty

Scottay!

There are no commercial 240 gr. .45 ACP loads. I have never even seen a .45 bullet available in 240 gr.

I use CLP, any gun oil, Rigg's grease, or Mobil Synthetic, and have no problems with lube.

That is the ammo your gun was designed to run with. If you are starting with a clean, well-lubed, broken-in gun, and are getting stoppages after 200 rounds, you need to send it back to the master gunsmith who built it and tell him that it is not running.

Nice looking piece.

TR

Air.177 · 08-09-2005, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Scottay!

That is the ammo your gun was designed to run with. If you are starting with a clean, well-lubed, broken-in gun, and are getting stoppages after 200 rounds, you need to send it back to the master gunsmith who built it and tell him that it is not running.

Nice looking piece.

TR

Several of the people I shoot with run SV pistols of some sort, and they all recommend shooting AT LEAST 1000 rounds to break the pistol in, often more.

YMMV
Blake

Scotty · 08-09-2005, 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reaper

Scottay!

There are no commercial 240 gr. .45 ACP loads. I have never even seen a .45 bullet available in 240 gr.

I use CLP, any gun oil, Rigg's grease, or Mobil Synthetic, and have no problems with lube.

That is the ammo your gun was designed to run with. If you are starting with a clean, well-lubed, broken-in gun, and are getting stoppages after 200 rounds, you need to send it back to the master gunsmith who built it and tell him that it is not running.

Nice looking piece.

TR

The weapon isn't quite broken in and is tight. I'm using Kleen Bore TW25B lube on her. I was reluctant to go with the grease and had always used clear oil, but it was recommended by several folks. It works great on the Grock 19 and I've never had a problem with that.

I haven't started using reloads in the SV yet, mostly because I haven't ordered the springs I'd need for my loads (and no, I've stopped making ++++++Ps, LOL), but I guess after a few hundred more rounds I'll see how she shoots and then take it back to Tommy. It's not cast so he might be able to widen the slide a few microns and get it moving better.

As it is, the thing puts a round anywhere you want it to. I've never shot a weapon more accurate. And I love the hi-cap ability without a long mag sticking out the bottom, and way the grip feels. It also came with the high beavertail grip safety that seats it just so.

Scotty

**The Reaper** · 08-09-2005, 12:15

Then get a couple of cases of ammo, your cleaning kit, a cooler of cold drinks, some hotties, and resolve yourself to going to the range and banging rounds till it stops, taking a break, cleaning it, and repeating as necessary.

I would not take it back to the smith for the problems you have cited till I had at least 500 rounds through it, preferably 1000.

As long as it is oily and wet, I would not worry about the brand of lube you are using.

TR

**Team Sergeant** · 08-09-2005, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty

Hey guys, long time no see.

I recently bought a new toy and am having the same issues as I've had with my Kimbers, Colts, and Thompson 1911s.

After about 200 rds or so, the weapon starts gumming up and jamming. I've been shooting the Winchester battle packs. I might bump up to to a 240 grain round, I think Winchester's best in the the battle packs are 230.

What do you guys shoot for target/what do you do to the weapon to keep it from gumming badly?

BTW, here's my new toy. Custom built Strayer-Voigt frame, Caspian slide. Completely built from the ground up by master gunsmith Tommy Abernathy.

Scotty

Say it isn't so, a 1911 jamming?????

Who would have thunk it could happen!!!

With a little therapy you too can overcome your 1911 addiction.
(There are weapons currently on the market that do not jam like the 1911, really.

)

My .02 and worth every penny.

TS

Sacamuelas · 08-09-2005, 13:17

HaHa

I knew that was coming...

08-09-2005, 13:25

I have searched for this, and haven't found it mentioned.

Many of the cons of the 1911s have been discussed, especially in comparison with the USP. What are the pros, now that it's such a wide spread weapon? Availability and adaptability?

Martin - admittedly lacking knowledge and experience on the subject

jbour13 · 08-09-2005, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin

I have searched for this, and haven't found it mentioned.

Many of the cons of the 1911s have been discussed, especially in comparison with the USP. What are the pros, now that it's such a wide spread weapon? Availability and adaptability?

Martin - admittedly lacking knowledge and experience on the subject

I have the ten foot pole in hand and I'm reluctant to post any pro 1911 comments with TS on the look-out.

I've got a few 1911's and like them. But I prefer the unconditional reliability and function of the HK's.

Pro's, I posted a few in an earlier thread: Personalization, parts availability, and knowledgability on the platform.

TS had made the good point of needing additional funds to go towards gunsmithing that you won't need with the USP, it's good to go out of the box.

The above stated thread: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=6596

Air.177 · 08-09-2005, 13:42

Are we Really doing this Again?

By all means, discuss what you choose, but please consider doing so AFTER using the Search function.

**Team Sergeant** · 08-09-2005, 13:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbour13

I have the ten foot pole in hand and I'm reluctant to post any pro 1911 comments with TS on the look-out.

I've got a few 1911's and like them. But I prefer the unconditional reliability and function of the HK's.

Pro's, I posted a few in an earlier thread: Personalization, parts availability, and knowledgability on the platform.

TS had made the good point of needing additional funds to go towards gunsmithing that you won't need with the USP, it's good to go out of the box.

The above stated thread: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/...ead.php?t=6596

I'm not going to tear off anyones head over their personal weapons choice. If one chooses to select and utilize a weapon thats design is almost 100 years old, who am I to stand in their way?

I have a 1911 and I used to "drive" it all the time. Now it sits in a "special" place, out of harms way so it can enjoy it's remaining days out to pasture.

Please, continue your discussion while I dream about a world without stove pipe jams.

I crack myself up.

TS

**Team Sergeant** · 08-09-2005, 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacamuelas

HaHa

I knew that was coming...

I cannot save everyone, but I feel its my duty to at least "get the word out".
I feel its also a double edged sword, it is not my desire to put 10,000 US gunsmiths out of work either.

Gene Econ · 08-10-2005, 07:54

[QUOTE=Scotty]After about 200 rds or so, the weapon starts gumming up and jamming. I've been shooting the Winchester battle packs.....What do you guys shoot for target/what do you do to the weapon to keep it from gumming badly?
.....Custom built Strayer-Voigt frame, Caspian slide. Completely built from the ground up by master gunsmith Tommy Abernathy.

Scotty:

The guys have some excellent advice and I will comment on your questions FWIW.

One of the guys said to keep it lubed and it really didn't matter what you use for lube. I agree totally but will add this for you. Don't mix the types of lube you are using. I have been using LSA-T on my .45 and it works quite well. This last week I decided to lube with LSA-T on some of the parts and good old CLP on others. It was hot out and I shot a-lot that day. The LSA-T tried to mix with the CLP and it resulted in a gummy substance that also got mixed with carbon. The .45 got sluggish but continued to function. A quick wipe down of the barrel and slide followed by straight CLP did the trick.

I think that the Winchester cheapo ammo that you are using isn't as hot as it should be. Liability issues are at play with commercially purchased ammo and the companies will always use the low end of loads to avoid law suits. The loads are perfectly safe of course but are one size fits all and I have found the Winchester 230 grain loads to be very mild although they function every .45 I have seen them fired through. Could be that these loads are a bit light for your custom pistol and once you get some carbon mixed with the lube -- that is enough to make it sluggish.

I think some of the fellows remember the final days of the issued .45 ACP -- early 1990s. IMI .45 ball. 230 grain round nose. Very hot loads. Much more felt recoil than the issued WCC .45 ACP we used to get. So hot in fact that I stopped shooting them.

You may want to ask this gunsmith what loads should be shot from this particular pistol before hand loading for it. He would probably know what is best and I would go with his advice before screwing around with something else.

'Target' loads is kind of a generic term. Real 'Target' loads normally use a 185 grain bullet and very light loads of powder -- requiring a much lighter recoil spring than what you probably have. I don't think you really want to deal with true 'target' loads as 185 grain .45 bullets can be very picky about the feed ramp.

Instead, let me advise you to hand load with some 200 grain truncated cone or cast bullets to moderate loads. I feed my .45 a constant diet of 200 grain bullets. My loads are a bit hotter than what bullseye guys will use but that ensures function. I have found the 200 grain bullets to be superior in accuracy than the 230 round nose anyway and if you are worried about 'knock down' power -- I wouldn't due to bullet design and the increased speed you get with the 200 grain bullets.

Guys generally use five grains of Tite Group or WW 231 with a 200 grain bullet to good effect. There are other powders -- Bullseye, AA-5, AA-7, Unique, and some shotgun powders but I think that most guys tend to stick with Tite Group and WW 231. Plus or minus a few tenths of a grain to suit their own tastes but that is the general load for this bullet weight. Works with standard recoil springs and the accuracy is superior to a 230.

One final comment -- there is no excuse for any firearm not to function with the ammo that the manufacturer claims should be used. I have very strong views about firearms that someone says needs to be 'broken in' by firing ammo before it will function consistently and perfectly. To me, there is no excuse for a firearm made by a custom guy or even out of the box to fail to function flawlessly for the full amount of ammo expected to be shot in any shooting session. 200 rounds in a session for a pistol without wiping it down or adding lube is pushing it in my view so keep that in mind as you go down your path.

Gene

**Team Sergeant** · 08-10-2005, 08:55

[QUOTE=Gene Econ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty

One final comment -- there is no excuse for any firearm not to function with the ammo that the manufacturer claims should be used. I have very strong views about firearms that someone says needs to be 'broken in' by firing ammo before it will function consistently and perfectly. To me, there is no excuse for a firearm made by a custom guy or even out of the box to fail to function flawlessly for the full amount of ammo expected to be shot in any shooting session. 200 rounds in a session for a pistol without wiping it down or adding lube is pushing it in my view so keep that in mind as you go down your path.

Gene

I could not agree with this statement more.....

I have (in the days of old, before I kicked my 1911 addiction) taken a 1911 to a Master Smith only to have it stop working 500 rounds later. After a few thousand dollars in "custom" work, and purchasing more 1911's, I came to the conclusion the 1911 will always require "work" and re-work.

There are too many great "out of the box" weapons on todays market that can shoot as accurately as any 1911, function much more reliably than a 1911, have a mulitude of options and cost a tenth of what a custom 1911 costs. (I will not discuss the training involved to employ a 1911 with confidence and competence!)

Now if we could just get some of those gun makers to make different size frames in th same models.....