Lightweight Carry

jatx · 05-28-2005, 12:25

I am beginning to cycle seriously after a break of many years, in the hopes of continuing to build my cardiovascular endurance and lower body strength without causing too much additional wear and tear on my body. Previously, I encountered all sort of nut jobs on my rides, and I can only imagine that it will be the same or worse now. I have been run off the road by road ragers, run over, dragged, shot at, shouted at and threatened, and had everything from broken bottles to half-eaten cheeseburgers thrown at me.

So I plan on carrying a small, lightweight handgun with me. My priorities are (1) stopping power and (2) light weight. I do not care a lick about recoil or aesthetics. This will not be my regular concealed carry piece, but it will probably be exposed to temperature extremes and lots of sweat.

So far my leading candidates are the S&W scandium models in .357 and the Kahr PM40. I don't think that I need more than 5-6 rounds, but am willing to be persuaded otherwise.

Any thoughts or suggestions on these options or others you would recommend?

AngelsSix · 05-28-2005, 12:32

Where the heck are you riding that people abuse you so bad?? Ever consider moving?? Or even trying a different riding area?

**Ambush Master** · 05-28-2005, 12:43

Look at a Kel-Tec P3AT in .380. or a P32 in .32. They are available in Hardchrome but you may need to do a little work on them to insure reliability. I have one of each and they run well, and they are very light and small. See:

http://www.kel-tec.com/

Goggles Pizano · 05-28-2005, 13:08

I always preferred my S/W Model J five shot. You could drop it in a puddle of mud and it will continue to operate. Fits just about anywhere. Load with +P hollow points and your in business.

jatx · 05-28-2005, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelsSix

Where the heck are you riding that people abuse you so bad?? Ever consider moving?? Or even trying a different riding area?

It doesn't matter. I've been taken out in both Texas and the Northeast. I was shot at just outside of Dallas, and run down and dragged under a Volvo in Connecticut. Nutjobs are distributed pretty evenly across the country, far as I can tell. It can get serious when I am 30 miles from nowhere, though, and another car won't be coming by for ten minutes. I might as well be on the moon.

Edit: AM, you think the smaller calibers would be okay? One very real scenario is a driver who circles back in a rage intent on using their vehicle as a weapon...

**The Reaper** · 05-28-2005, 15:10

S&W Scandium .357 Magnum.

TR

**Peregrino** · 05-28-2005, 18:09

The wife and I both have Kahr P40s for social CCWs. Not as small as the PM40 but very convenient. A bit of a fistful for the wife with the 180 gr HPs I like but it does function well. As with any new gun it needs several hundred rounds run through it before you start carrying it as a primary. It will take that long for the trigger to feel comfortable anyway. My .02 - Peregrino

jasonglh · 05-28-2005, 18:43

Thats why I mountain bike only. No cars just fast moving trees and snakes.

Baggy mountain bike shorts conceal the HK compact .40 much better than spandex as well.

rubberneck · 05-28-2005, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by jatx

So far my leading candidates are the S&W scandium models in .357 and the Kahr PM40. I don't think that I need more than 5-6 rounds, but am willing to be persuaded otherwise.

Any thoughts or suggestions on these options or others you would recommend?

IIRC the S&W performance center makes a 45ACP scandium revolver with a 2 inch barrel.

jatx · 05-30-2005, 08:18

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. I think I'm going to go with the S&W 640PD in .357. I am not usually a revolver guy, but I really like the fact that I can get a full grip on it without sacrificing light weight. The mini autos might be kind of hard to handle with gloves on (something I hadn't really considered until now). Same goes for your derringer idea, Dad - although I think it suits a surly old fart like you just perfectly!

**Team Sergeant** · 05-30-2005, 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by jatx

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. I think I'm going to go with the S&W 640PD in .357. I am not usually a revolver guy, but I really like the fact that I can get a full grip on it without sacrificing light weight. The mini autos might be kind of hard to handle with gloves on (something I hadn't really considered until now). Same goes for your derringer idea, Dad - although I think it suits a surly old fart like you just perfectly!

jatx,

Have you ever shot a weapon with a 2 inch barrel? You may want to rent one at the local range and give it a whirl before you purchase it. You might be surprised at “your” max effective range with a two inch piece.

TS

**The Reaper** · 05-30-2005, 09:08

I am not a fan of the derringers.

The .410 model weighs about 16 ounces empty, and is 5" long. That makes it larger than most of the revolvers and pistols recommended already. With the buck round, accuracy and performance are further reduced. As an example, the Kel-Tec P3AT weighs less than 8 ounces and launches seven .380 rounds. The S&W Scandiums weigh less than 12 ounces and fire 5 rounds of .357 Magnum. Two rounds between reloads while riding a bike could make things sporting as well.

On a different tack, I would suggest that you examine a couple of other issues. If you are being assaulted that often while biking, I would recommend that you examine your route, ride time, and manner of riding. You pay no road use taxes and in many cases, cannot ride at the legal speed limit. I see bikes on the road every day splitting lanes in heavy traffic, blocking lanes as they ride abreast, and ignoring signs and signals. If you are getting out into heavily congested traffic at rush hour, and demanding that others share the road while you are creating a hazard, you might want to consider a different route, time, or other alternatives.

Secondly, you may want to think hard about the legal and practical implications of lethal force against a motorist. If you brandish the pistol, you are breaking the law, and if you use it, you will likely be arrested. Furthermore, if you threaten a motorist with a firearm, they may choose to protect themselves by using the vehicle to take you out of firing position, and I would take the car over the handgun almost every time in that contest. Finally, you cannot employ lethal force and shoot people for being rude, inconsiderate, or just poor drivers.

I am not accusing you of being a bad rider, or of overreacting, but you may want to consider the implications of being a cyclist and of CCW before you strap on that hogleg.

Just my .02, YMMV.

TR

jatx · 05-30-2005, 09:12

TS,

That's a fair point. I've shot this model before, but only in the older stainless version. I found it fairly easy to control with regular loads, but the lack of a rear sight really limited my accuracy beyond about five yards. At that distance, I was grouping about 3". Add in gloves, sweaty hands and a semi-numb ulnar nerve from riding, and I know I won't do much better in a stress situation.

One thing's for sure, though - I'll be taking Peregrino's advice and spending some serious time on the range with it before it gets carried anywhere. And I'm going to make sure I wear my cycling gloves every time I shoot it, since it will only get carried when I ride.

EDIT: Now you've got me thinking. I was looking for a handgun that would fit comfortably in a jersey pocket, afford a full grip and be light weight. Now that I think about the challenge of shooting with sweaty, numb, gloved hands, maybe I should just scratch the jersey criteria and go with what I know best: the 1911. I could carry a LW commander in a fanny pack without much added bulk and all of my training would translate over. Plus, with my handgun in a fanny pack, corrosion from sweat becomes a non-issue. My gut is telling me that this is the right answer.

jatx · 05-30-2005, 09:34

TR, no offense taken.

Cycling is a dangerous sport, mostly because it increases the number of bad apples that you come into random contact with. But the incidents I described all occured over a 15 year period, they aren't frequest occurences. Ironically, though, the only times I have been hit have been when I was riding unusually far to the right. This causes cars to think that they can "squeeze" past you. I was once clipped in the back of the head by a large truck's mirror this way - resulting in my nose nearly being severed from my face by a broken bottle in the ditch. So now I ride 2-3 feet from the right, obeying all traffic laws, but making sure that I am seen and that drivers are not tempted to pass within the lane.

You're also right to point out that most of the indignities I described wouldn't warrant the use of deadly force. I take that very seriously. However, I am more vulnerable when out on my bike than any other time during the day. My own experience shows me that, sooner or later, I am likely to be assaulted again. Multiply that probability by the likelihood of an incident escalating or taking a bad turn, and it is an eventuality worth preparing for, same as the decision to carry anywhere else.

jasonglh · 05-30-2005, 14:27

I would not trust a loaded weapon in my jersey pocket. Of course offroad my situation is much different than yours and I tend to wreck more often than I should.

Fanny pack would be the better choice. My weapon fits nicely in one or in a nice Cannon camera pouch on the belt.

The Camelbak I use is an older fanny pack design. The bladder goes in your lumbar area with side pockets for easy to reach stuff. I'm sure the HK would fit nicely but have never carried it biking.

With people now cooking meth in public parks/campgrounds perhaps maybe I need to start thinking about it more.